Wednesday, October 15, 2008
The final debate: The live-blog post
I'll be live-blogging the debate at this post. As long as I can bear it.
Sadly, John McCain opens with his proposal that the government buy mortgage loans directly and negotiate with the homeowners. Sadly, because it is a really dumb idea. Buy them from whom? A mortgage pool run by some trustee? Negotiate with whom? We are going to build a vast bureaucracy in a matter of weeks to deal with plumbers in Florida and school teachers in Fresno? Shoot me now.
Now taxes. Obama is killing on this one, too. After McCain garbles his way through an incomprehensible statistic involving the number 50%, Obama says this: "We both want to cut taxes, the difference is who we want to cut taxes for."
McCain finally lands one on the rebuttal in the "Joe the Plumber" sequence with the "spread the wealth around" attack. Obama: ExxonMobil! ExxonMobil! Well, anybody who has owned ExxonMobil stock in the last ten days probably thinks they deserve a tax cut.
Schieffer asks about the budget and whether some of these profligate programs will have to be trimmed. Obama gives a fluffy, nonsense, but totally benign answer that includes the very true point that our society needs a new attitude toward debt, including individuals. McCain gets us back to the home ownership issue, which might conceivably be good politics -- what do I know? -- but which is very uninteresting. If he keeps harping on this dumb idea I'm going to vote against him.
So far, the good guys are going down in flames. Can we get Sarah out here?
Kidding, but still.
Then, out of nowhere: "Senator Obama, I'm not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago." Bang! That would have been a great line in the first debate, but better late than never.
Schieffer wants to know where all the civility went. "Are each of you willing to say to each other's face what your campaigns have said about each other?" Stupid horserace question.
McCain goes to the John Lewis comments, and asks Obama to repudiate his remarks. "Senator Obama has spent more money on negative ads than any presidential campaign in history." Well, he has spent more money on everything than any campaign in history. I bet he's also spent more money on pizza, bumper stickers, and radio cars. Because he has spent a staggering pile of money. Obama responds by citing the polls, and pointing out that "100%" of McCain's ads have been negative.
Is all of a small budget worse than a big part of a huge budget? That seems to be Obama's argument: "I have so much money, I can afford to run a few positive ads along with the huge number of negative ads."
Obama says that Lewis "inappropriately" drew a comparison. Nice rebuke. Hope and change.
Not just "tit for tat" but also "back and forth"!
Mrs. TH: "I think they've pretty much flogged this topic to death."
Others: Jules Crittenden, Ann Althouse. Stephen Green got hit by a mucous truck.
McCain: "We need to know the extent of Senator Obama's relationship with ACORN!" Bang.
Obama on ACORN: "Had nothing to do with us. We were not involved." Really? That is a strong assertion. Is there an ambitious journalist willing to validate that statement?
Mrs. TH: "I think this is sort of a stupid point." Uh-oh. I rather liked it, but she has better instincts than I do.
Schieffer blows, by the way. Can't we get Christopher Hitchens to do one of these?
Obama says that Joe Biden "has some of the best foreign policy credentials of anybody." Seriously? Are there really people who believe this? Sure, he tops Palin, at least when it comes to actual facts in his brain, but really?
McCain's defense of Palin is very strong. Too bad he had to offend her. Obama is dignified and gracious in responding, high-roading the heck out of it. Levers the "special needs" bit into a health care speech.
McCain hammers Biden on foreign policy issues! Awesome. I have been waiting for that for six weeks.
After a weak start, McCain is showing up. And he corrects Bob Schieffer, who says "climate control" when he means "climate change." Heh.
On dependence on foreign oil (can we eliminate our dependence in four years?), McCain says we can eliminate our dependence on "Middle Eastern and Venezuelan oil," but that "Canadian oil" is just bully. Dumb, but probably a vote-getter. Nails Obama on the unilateral negotiation of NAFTA, though.
Obama goes to the same place, also loving Canadian oil (though by implication), brings up the canard of drilling the undrilled leased acres, and blows a bunch of wind, solar, geothermal, and biodiesel. Proposes that government fix the American automobile industry. You mean, it does not suck because of bad management and obstructionist labor unions? Because I always thought that was the reason.
McCain "admires Senator Obama's eloquence," but warns us against his legalism: "Look at offshore drilling? We can do it right now." You cannot trust those sneaky lawyers.
When Obama says "but the important point is...", does that mean that everything before was not important? Sometimes I think he debates like a high schooler, responding to every point as if he is actually being scored.
What do people think of the atmospherics? Once McCain got off mortgages, he has been doing well, I think. How does Obama's cool schtick go with the Great Unwashed?
Schieffer tosses the softball of all softballs on the healthcare question, asking the candidates to choose between controlling costs and expanding coverage. Does he not know that the magic of most progressive schemes is to do both? Well, Obama is telling him.
Health care policy is perhaps the subject that is least susceptible to intelligent discussion in these debates. Both these guys sound as though they are spouting incoherent nonsense. They each are picking one bit of the other's proposal and beating them over the head with it. Not at all illuminating, and this is one subject where I may well agree with Obama more than McCain (do not be mean to me -- I have good reasons but have not gotten around to writing them down).
Good 'un from the comments, though: "So, which government entity under the Obama administration decides which businesses can afford to provide healthcare and which can't?"
Schieffer asks the abortion question, but with kid gloves. Turns on the litmus test question. That is an easy one to answer: No litmus test! McCain is strong, from the center's point of view, arguing that Obama has politicized judicial confirmations, and he has not.
Obama believes, apparently, that the federal constitution has a right to privacy in it that is not subject to state review. Really? I mean, other than in connection with reproduction?
McCain: Obama votes "present" on abortion, but sadly does not articulate what that means in Illinois.
They do both agree that this election is one of the most consequential in history. Well, occasionally that is actually true.
Glenn Reynolds: "Big winner so far: Joe the plumber."
Thankfully, the abortion argument is over.
On education, John McCain does very well on an issue that is near and dear to me. He calls for competition among schools, and demands that we break down barriers (such as teacher certification) so that we can get more competent people in to the schools. Excellent. A better articulation of the school choice question than I remember from any presidential candidate.
Is there a huge autism vote? Because while I admire Sarah Palin's support and empathy for families with autistic children, I am not sure it warranted multiple mentions.
Neither closing amounted to much. I repeat my view that Bob Schieffer blows, and besides bears a scary resemblence to DeForrest Kelley.
Your reactions?
29 Comments:
By 
, at
Wed Oct 15, 09:16:00 PM:
Hmm. McCain definitely needs to be more concise and direct in his statements. But, I will say that compared to the prior two debates he seems to have at "shown up." He seems more aggressive already, even this early on, than he has in the prior debates.
On that first tax discussion I wish he'd pointed out the complete falsehood of the "95%" tax cut. I can't believe Obama can continue to say that with a straight-face.
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:17:00 PM:
I feel your pain. Why can't McCain note how many people Exxon employs, how much they already pay in taxes, and how many regular Americans are invested in Exxon and the stock market as a rebuttal to this soak the "rich" stuff?
Answer: because he is painfully inept, even if he is pro-business and anti-tax. I can hardly stand it.
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:19:00 PM:
McCain needs to ask "who do you trust" on these issues? the man who palled around with a terrorist and has no record, or him?
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:20:00 PM:
earmarks ... a small percentage?
a billion here, a billion there, after a while it adds up ...
and there was no surplus ... ever ... it's a lie.
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:23:00 PM:
whooops, showing some fire. Where was this guy at the first debate?
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:24:00 PM:
PS: tigerhawk - time your posts if you are liveblogging, makes it easier to follow the thread (and three cheers for old nass).
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:29:00 PM:
goddamnit mccain ... ayers, wright, acorn, rezko ... bring it dammit ... bring it you pussy
you're a POW survivor and a warrier ... live up to it
By 
SR, at
Wed Oct 15, 09:32:00 PM:
If McCain can't land knockout blows every time, it demonstrates that he either doesn't care, or that his staff is totally clueless about prepping him to rebut Obama on every point. There is so much information available rebutting the entire Democrat program that McCain's "advisors absolutely have to be aware of it.
Whenever he doesn't use it, it does a tremendous disservice to him and his party. As noted above, with the Exxon point, Obama is completely predictable, the rebuttals are simple and powerful. So long John.
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:33:00 PM:
McCain is way outperforming his previous appearances. It might have made a difference if this had happened last month (and if the economy wasn't tanking).
And he mentioned Goldwater by name! (Probably BG is spinning in his grave, having seen McCain gut the first Amendment). And I say that as a McCain supporter (look at the alternative, Barry).
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:39:00 PM:
McCain ought to have a comeback prepared here. Ayers isn't "a professor at the University of Chicago." He's a terrorist who bombed the Pentagon.
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:43:00 PM:
McCain should also say, "Yes, that's an impressive list of Biden's legislative accomplishments. I might even consider voting for him for president on the basis of that record. But he's not running - you are, and you don't have anything like that kind of record of accomplishment."
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 09:46:00 PM:
When McCain addressed the question about Palin's qualifications, I wish he'd ended it with "...and she's more qualified than the gentleman seated next to me."
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 10:03:00 PM:
My god, Obama is so boring, droning on and on in mono-tone. I don't want to spend four years being lectured to by this guy. Sigh.
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 10:04:00 PM:
So, which government entity under the Obama administration decides which businesses can afford to provide healthcare and which can't?
By nick, at
Wed Oct 15, 10:12:00 PM:
Mccain is not following up on initial charges, Obama able to parry.
By nick, at
Wed Oct 15, 10:15:00 PM:
cavalier activity - ZING Sarah Palin!
By , at
Wed Oct 15, 10:29:00 PM:
Actually, there is a pretty big autism vote in America. There has been a big upswing in autism diagnosis (especially among boys) recently - many think it's tied to immunizations. If you total those parents, yeah...it's a pretty big vote.
By newscaper, at
Wed Oct 15, 10:45:00 PM:
Re: autism...
It's kid brother, Aspergers', is turning into the yuppie version ADD, placing a medical diagnosis on a lot (not all) of boys who need some firm discipline.
It excuses their inappropriate behavior but has the advantage of being associated with intelligence, for ass-backwards bragging rights by the parents.
"You see? It's ok for him to be jerk/oddball because he's *8smart*"
Bah.
By Dawnfire82, at
Wed Oct 15, 10:55:00 PM:
I stand by my previous prediction, that come November 10th or so the general consensus will be that McCain did not use every weapon at his disposal and paid for it. He tried to fight a clean battle against a dirty opponent; chivalry v. barroom.
With all of the blatant lies, (Biden... Jesus) raw hatred, (Malkin made up a summary recently, I think) and dishonest legal manipulations (from ACORN to the Missouri Truth Squad to the Ohio SecState to the coordinated chilling of political speech) oozing from the left this year, it ought to have been brought up and hammered upon a month ago: "Do you really want these people to have complete control of the government?"
I told the guy at the gun store last week to expect me back in a month, depending on how the election goes. Looks like he'll make a sale after all.
By GeorgePCBFL, at
Wed Oct 15, 11:24:00 PM:
McCain missed the biggest opportunity of the night when talking about education. He should have discussed the fact that Obama's only "executive experience" came in the realm of the CAC foundation on which he served with Mr Ayers. And somehow they spent $160m, where, we don't know, because the records are being withheld, why, I guess it's just a "Chicago thing". But we do know the results of those seven years of innovation by Mr Obama in the Chicago school system. His project received an F, for Failure.
By Escort81, at
Thu Oct 16, 12:51:00 AM:
Didn't watch the debate.
Watched the NLCS game 5, Phillies win!
(You have to have priorities).
By Alexis, at
Thu Oct 16, 02:33:00 AM:
I think Senator McCain did about as well as could be expected this evening.
This is how I score the debates.
First debate: McCain 8, Obama 7
Second debate: McCain 8, Obama 8
Third debate: McCain 9, Obama 6
The most interesting aspect of the third debate is not how well John McCain did, but how poorly Barack Obama fared when he not only should have parried much more effectively, but should have been on the offense. Of course, although I haven't heard their views on the subject yet, I would be greatly surprised if Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, and Rachel Maddow did not all claim that Barack Obama won the debate hands down and how John McCain seemed "erratic" (the latest word on the Obama campaign's buzzword bingo score card).
Overall, Senator McCain won the debates 25-22. Whether that can overcome Senator Obama's gargantuan monetary advantage is another question.
By SR, at
Thu Oct 16, 09:10:00 AM:
In America, you can only lose a debate with an
obfuscating socialist if you don't point out the obfuscation at every opportunity.
By RW, at
Thu Oct 16, 09:58:00 AM:
Is there a huge autism vote?
Yes.
Here's something that not a lot of people know: very few insurance companies cover autism. And by very I mean "think-the-number-of-black-republicans". Thus, this is not only a topic pertaining to special needs, but also to health care costs, so yeah, it could be huge.
McCain became the first presidential candidate to put autism into the arena.
Another area where they underused Palin.
By GreenmanTim, at
Thu Oct 16, 11:55:00 AM:
There may be a huge autism vote, but Sarah Palin's child is not autistic, but has Downs Syndrome. A huge gaff, in my opinion, that shows that McCain does not understand the special needs of his running mate's family.
By Dawnfire82, at
Thu Oct 16, 02:01:00 PM:
Huger than claiming that the US and France kicked Hezb Allah out of Lebanon?
By , at
Thu Oct 16, 02:08:00 PM:
I'm still loving that particular military success- it has changed the tenor of politics all through the middle east!
Anyway, Rasmussen reports a 4 point gap between the two candidates today, versus an eight point gap at this time last week. These are national numbers, and so McCain needs to back up the trend (if it is one) with better performances in a few key states if he wants to have a prayer.
I'm increasingly coming around to the view that the stock market is busy discounting the coming increases in taxes and protectionism. A depression looks like a very possible result.
Imagine 30% unemployment...
By , at
Thu Oct 16, 10:35:00 PM:
The republican base and red-state America at its finest:
right here
By Noumenon, at
Sat Oct 18, 01:21:00 AM:
I'd be interested in learning why you prefer Obama's health plan, TigerHawk. McCains' health plan is the only thing I like about his whole campaign. And vouchers I guess, but I dont' know if he mentioned them before.
