Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Ahmadinejad threatens Israel again, or perhaps only predicts its demise
Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has issued another one of his pronouncements about Israel that might well be a prediction, a threat, or a promise. It is hard to tell which it is:
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday advised the leaders of European countries and the US not to yield to Israel's demands and never count on its support because "We will witness dismantling of the corrupt regime in a very near future." ...
Referring to Israel, the Iranian leader described it as the main cause of all corruption and wickedness in the contemporary era, adding that the Zionism is the most complicated political and social scheme which has ever taken place. The writers in the West accept the fact that supporting the Holocaust is tantamount to backing the identity of the Zionists, he said, according to the state-run IRNA news agency.
Israel is the "main cause of all corruption and wickedness in the contemporary era"? Middle Eastern oil exporters might well fit that description, but Israel?
Anyway, what is Israel to take from the repeated declarations of the president of Iran that "we will witness" its dismantling in short order? In this formulation, Ahmadinejad's eruptions might be threats, confident promises to be fulfilled, or mere predictions. When the mafia, a schoolyard bully, or the leader of a real country says such things, the would-be victim would do well to assume the worst. Otherwise, he will become an actual victim. Similarly, it seems to me that Israel is entitled to assume that a head of a proximate and hostile state has threatened war against it with the stated aim of ending it as a state. That does not mean that it is in Israel's best interest to interdict Iran's military capability, but surely it should be well within its rights if it choses to do so.
11 Comments:
By 
Elijah, at
Wed Aug 20, 10:37:00 PM:
one perspective
The Reach of Hizbullah as Iran's Surrogate
By 
, at
Wed Aug 20, 11:40:00 PM:
Maybe he means Iran is going to fall apart ;->
By , at
Thu Aug 21, 12:41:00 AM:
After they speak with obama with or without precondintions
By , at
Thu Aug 21, 02:32:00 AM:
Israel is the "main cause of all corruption and wickedness in the contemporary era"?
I think you misunderstand. He knows Jews are corrupt because the Koran repeatedly excoriates the Jews for being corrupt and wicked. It is not necessary to know any Jews or observe what they actually do. Also, under Sharia law (which applies everywhere, naturally) the spread of religions other than Islam is defined as "spreading corruption", which implies that any area not governed by Muslims is by definition corrupt.
By , at
Thu Aug 21, 08:30:00 AM:
Is there such a thing as an "Islamic dialectic"?
I think that Randian has summed it up nicely.
-David
By , at
Thu Aug 21, 10:02:00 AM:
"We will witness dismantling of the corrupt regime in a very near future."
Olmert has been the target of corruption investigations and is said to be on his way out, Dinnerjacket is likely right, though perhaps not in the way he meant.
By Dawnfire82, at
Thu Aug 21, 10:06:00 AM:
"Also, under Sharia law (which applies everywhere, naturally) the spread of religions other than Islam is defined as "spreading corruption","
Source, please?
By , at
Thu Aug 21, 11:20:00 AM:
Quran 5:64 is the verse in which the Jews are accused by Allah of "spreading corruption throughout the land" and Allah does not love -- wishes to see destroyed -- those who "spread corruption through the land."
Quran 2:251 says if Allah did not use one set of people (meaning, believers) to check another set of people (disbelievers), then the world would be full of fasad (mischief/corruption).
Quran 8:73 says that disbelief causes chaos and corruption.
Ergo, the spread of non-Islamic thought and law constitutes the spread of corruption.
By Andrew X, at
Thu Aug 21, 11:45:00 AM:
Just sorta mouthing off here, but...
I wonder if the Israeli government should consider just standing up in an extremely public and forthright way, and, say, "Maybe we will go down for whatever reason what might be, but Mahmoud, it does not matter HOW it happens, if we go down, you and your whole country are going with us. Big time. What does that mean? Every single thing you think it does."
Let 'em chew on that for a while.
By Georg Felis, at
Thu Aug 21, 04:37:00 PM:
Dru, it would be treated as a threat from the warlike Israelis against the peaceful and loving Iranian people, and therefore a perfectly good reason to procure missiles and payloads to defend against the warlike aggression of the yadda, yadda, yadda.... Generally not a good idea and a violation of the "speak softly, carry a large stick" field of thought. The Iranian leadership already knows roughly what will happen if they nuke Israel, it involves a lot of craters and high radioactive levels across Iran.
Iran’s leaders are doing one of two things: Acting crazy like they do not fear the consequences of their actions, or they are crazy and do not fear the consequences of their actions, i.e. they are attempting to gain nukes for blackmail or suicide.
Besides, I thought it was Karl Rove who was supposed to be the Focus of Evil in the Modern World? : )
By Dawnfire82, at
Thu Aug 21, 05:28:00 PM:
"Quran 2:251 says if Allah did not use one set of people (meaning, believers) to check another set of people (disbelievers), then the world would be full of fasad (mischief/corruption)."
The word 'people' here is 'nas,' which is, literally, people. 'Another set of people' is not used; the Arabic translates better as 'people amongst themselves.' Amnoon is what the Quran usually uses to refer to the Believers. Taken in context, the passage is referring to the war between the Israelites and Philistines, and has nothing to do with modern (at the time) Islam or Muslims.
The whole verse: 'So they put them to flight by Allah's permission. And David slew Goliath and Allah gave him kingdom and wisdom, and taught him of what He pleased. And were it not for Allah's repelling some men by others, the earth would certainly be in a state of disorder, but Allah is full of grace to the worlds.'
"Quran 5:64 is the verse in which the Jews are accused by Allah of "spreading corruption throughout the land" and Allah does not love -- wishes to see destroyed -- those who "spread corruption through the land."
No quibbles here, except that you might read too much into 'God loves not yadda yadda.' That lines exists in many places, about many things.
"Quran 8:73 says that disbelief causes chaos and corruption."
Hmm... I have here, 'And those who disbelieve are friends of one another. If you do it not, there will be persecution in the land and great mischief.' Foot note reads: 'If you do not help your brethren in the matter of religion, the disbelievers will become more daring in their persecutions and in causing mischief and disorder in the land.'
In each case here, fsad has been translated by the author (Maulana Muhammad Ali, 1917, reprinted 2002) as chaos, mischief, and unrest. I'm not sure why. In Modern Standard Arabic, it means corruption or perversion. (as you mentioned) I guess that the original Quranic meaning was a little different.
I believe that your core idea is sound, but it's not written as such in simple black and white in the Quran and isn't part of Shari'a. Rather, the ideas of Islam vs. the World are derived by theologians. For instance, the ideas of Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam are not from the Quran or the Hadith, but from the writings of a fellow called Abu Hanifa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Harb
