Thursday, March 13, 2008
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright
I offer without comment the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama's pastor (Warning: clearly NSFW, even though it is a sermon in a church):
The story linked above has more.
MORE: "The Audacity of Hate."
Most whites, I think, do not really know or understand the extent of African-American rage. I admit that when I see a whole church congregation cheering at sentiments such as those of the Rev. Wright, I do not know whether they are part of a creepy subculture or this is mainstream stuff for African-Americans.
CWCID: Glenn Reynolds.
26 Comments:
By 
Escort81, at
Thu Mar 13, 01:24:00 PM:
I infer this sermon was delivered earlier this year, while Giuliani was still in the race (because of the reference to him). So, it predates the more heated exchanges between the Clinton and Obama campaigns of recent weeks.
Wright: "Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country, and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich white people."
Checking my Bible, I see that Jesus was the son of Mary and Joseph (well, more so God, according to the Roman Catholic belief in Immaculate Conception), and Mary and Joseph were Jews. There are certainly Jews in the modern day who are native to the Middle East and Africa who might be regarded as Black, and perhaps that was true 2000 years ago. But given the fact that there was much less geographic mobility 2000 years ago, I think it's likely that a Jewish baby born in Bethlehem and raised in Nazareth (about 32 degrees north latitude) might have had the same lovely olive-toned skin as his Roman overlords. I am therefore not sure why it makes sense for a preacher to force a racial analogy that compares the historic wrongs commited against African-Americans on this continent over the last 350 years with the wrongs the Romans commited against various parts of their empire. There might be a better point to be made generally about the powerful and the subjugated, without injecting race. Maybe because Giuliani is of Italian descent, Wright wanted to cover all the bases, but that's moot now.
Other nits to pick:
1) "He ain't rich..." The Obamas might not be rich in the Forbes 400 sense of the word, but they are more than comfortably middle class at this point.
2) "Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single parent home, Barack was," may be technically accurate, but in its context, it kind of paints the wrong picture of a struggling, young, impoverished black woman dealing with her kids, since in fact the single parent raising Barack was his white mother, along with her parents (his father had returned to his native Kenya).
I don't hold the Obama campaign responsible for anything Rev. Wright says, but it would not surprise me at all for there to be a bit more distance put between that church and the campaign going forward. I don't think this clip has much to do with why one might or might not vote for Obama -- he's very bright and is a gifted speaker, and has been a decent first term Senator for his constituents,etc.
I think that the church is a critically important part of the black community in the U.S., but that most do not preach the mantle of victimhood to the extent that Rev. Wright apparently does. There is no question that blacks were horrifically wronged and victimized by being forced to come to this continent and enslaved for generations, and have only gained roughly equal legal standing in the last generation or so. Is there a point in the future when it will make sense for the remaining parts of the black community to lay down their mantle of victimhood -- not because it rubs whites the wrong way, but because enough time has passed and progress has been made -- so that they are unburdened by its weight? Might it be that laying down that burden is a necessary step in making progress? Are we within 50 years of that time? I would like to live to see it.
By 
, at
Thu Mar 13, 02:10:00 PM:
Obama is just as much white as he is black.
Why does everyone choose to forget this?
Because being 'black' is politically advantageous to him and being 'white' is not. That's why.
By TigerHawk, at
Thu Mar 13, 03:50:00 PM:
Well, dawnfire, there is another reason: it is the case that for most of the last 300 years mixed race people were regarded as black, even if they were more than half white. This rationale was almost always deployed to their disadvantage. Now it is probably a bit disadvantageous and a bit advantageous, depending on other considerations. Nevertheless, it remains the case that it appears to be advantageous among Democratic primary voters, which (we should not forget) are the people most likely to pat themselves on the back for being so willing to vote for a black.
By Assistant Village Idiot, at
Thu Mar 13, 09:34:00 PM:
Theological FYI, escort81. Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception, while Jesus's situation is simply called the Virgin Birth. It's a very common misunderstanding.
Otherwise, you are of course correct. Jesus was a Galilean Jew, not black. The point makes no doctrinal difference, but neither is it open for manipulation and deception by Rev. Wright.
I don't know how common this attitude is. The black churches I have visited have never shown it, but I don't claim a wide scope of experience there.
By , at
Thu Mar 13, 09:50:00 PM:
"Goddam America" and "Ameri KKKa" and "White America deserved 9/11" is mainstream in Black America.
This is what Blacks largely believe. It's not just mainstream. To argue against that is being question for not being "black enough."
This is the deal.
By , at
Thu Mar 13, 10:47:00 PM:
Consider the peer pressure about leaving such a church and minister if you are African American and in the neighborhood, yet reject what is being said in the sermons.
And you wonder why skeptical Muslims are hard to find?
Can I get an amen?
-David
By , at
Fri Mar 14, 12:33:00 AM:
From what waste dump was this wretched scum pulled out of?
By D.E. Cloutier, at
Fri Mar 14, 02:09:00 AM:
Think strategically. Hillary has alienated many African-Americans and young white liberals. If she wins the nomination, many disenchanted Democrats may decide to support McCain. But they won't if Republicans pound on their favorite candidate right now. So you have a decision to make, TH. What is more important to you--a lively blog discussion today or a Republican victory in November?
Republicans will have plenty of time to take potshots at Obama if he wins the nomination. There is no reason to do it this early.
By , at
Fri Mar 14, 02:46:00 AM:
TH: about that last paragraph, have you not read The Bell Curve by Herrnstein and Murray ?
scattershot
By , at
Fri Mar 14, 02:26:00 PM:
I,remember as a kid hearing on the radio a white minister praying and asking God to preserve the white race and its superiority...Does this mean that everyone in the congregation supported Jim crow?...Its amazing how we put blinders on when it comes to certain aspects of our history in this country. As to the black church, it reflects, to a certain degree the life experiences of black people. From all indications, Rev Wright is controversial and inaccurate, this however is the case with most ministers at times, as they can say pretty much what they want to and not be held accountable. In a lot of churches, congregants are taught not to queston the minister. This applies to all churches, not just the so called black church. Lets not forget Pat Robinson, the late Jerry Falwell,Rev Hagee and some of the other right wing preachers who in the past has said some pretty ridiculous things, yet they were consistently courted by right wing politicians for political gain. Lets be fair and not so hypocritical.
By davod, at
Fri Mar 14, 04:09:00 PM:
Lets not be too hypocrtical about being hypocritical. Anyone in politics associating with the likes of "Pat Robinson, the late Jerry Falwell,Rev Hagee and some of the other right wing preachers who in the past has said some pretty ridiculous things,..." were excoriated by the press.
By association, I mean the mearest glimpse by the Pastor in the direction of politico was enough to bring about the wrath of the righteous.
What we have with Obama's twenty year association with Pastor Wright is twenty years of being a member of Wright's congregation. Twenty years of listening to sermons.
Twenty years may well have had an effect on Obama's view of the USA. Certainly, the way Obama's wife speaks about the USA seems to fall in line with Wrights jaundiced view of the country.
I wonder if anyone will question Obama's reason for not wearing a flag pin after they listen to his mentor's view of the USA.
By , at
Fri Mar 14, 04:29:00 PM:
"Most whites, I think, do not really know or understand the extent of African-American rage. I admit that when I see a whole church congregation cheering at sentiments such as those of the Rev. Wright, I do not know whether they are part of a creepy subculture or this is mainstream stuff for African-Americans."
Glenn Reynolds.
Well......To quote AA's that I worked with in the Chicago area in the late 90's, Caucasians are the unwanted byproduct of an experiment gone awry by a rogue scientist named Yacob. Their counterparts, evangelicals at the other end of town, ( with whom I worked a few years later), and of Caucasian persuasion were insistent that Black people were the result of incestuous sex among Lot in his drunkenness and his daughters. These unique perspectives define race relations in the general area. The hatred(s) run deep and have not changed appreciably in my fifty plus years on the Earth. The Artman
By davod, at
Fri Mar 14, 05:11:00 PM:
I must have been going to the wrong "white" church in the 90s. I suppose it wasn't really a white church because we had a congregation of many colors.
Maybe that's why I never heard anything like Artman's comments regarding Caucasian churches.
By , at
Sat Mar 15, 12:20:00 AM:
The UNITED NERGO COLLAGE FUND is right A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE especialy on hate mongers that that idiot
By , at
Sat Mar 15, 01:21:00 AM:
hate speech is hate speech,he wears robes of a preacher and preaches hate against everything american and everything that isn't black.he rants to the ignorant and weak minded,and reinforces the myth that they are victims..however wright will get away with it because he is a black minister trashing white america..i don't understand why people like him get free passes.despite his so called education the man talks like a moron
By , at
Sat Mar 15, 02:18:00 AM:
the man is an irresponsible fool.that's how he gets donations to float his church.the weak minded gullible followers are told what they want to hear.they will not ever respond to a message of peace or living a good life..however this hitler like diatribe churns up the worst racial feelings and tensions in that community.people don't leave his church in peace,having connected to thier saviour,they leave with hatred in thier hearts,and live thier lives accordingly.not trusting thier fellow citizens,hating non blacks,still not beleiving that the highest number of victims of black crime are black people.that's right reverend keep them in the dark and never tell them the truth.that's what you do best
By Gordon Smith, at
Sat Mar 15, 02:56:00 PM:
"NERGO COLLAGE"
LOL
Why is this clip NSFW? There are some other sermons that are more fiery, but this is NSFW? I don't understand.
I really look forward to having race being a major topic in the Presidential election. It's going to bring out the worst in some people, but it'll be an educational experience for all.
By , at
Sat Mar 15, 03:05:00 PM:
The word hate is often used to describe Rev. Wright, to a certain extent is is justified. However, a large percentage of people have a tendency to duck and dodge issues related to racial hatred when the victims are from a different racial background. Statistics clearly indicates that the majority culture has suffered very little in this country, when it comes to racial hatred. AS a matter of fact, there is no comparison. Rev. Wright appears to be an old fool, and his congregation should bear some of the blame for not dealing with the issue and or getting rid of him---there is no excuse. His rhetoric can only do so much harm, and
from an intellectual perspective, to those who he target, some probably just laugh at him. Historically speaking, hate that results in violence has primarily victimized people of color. Let alone hatred that for hundreds of years denied them their rights that were supposed to be guranteed under the constitution of the United States. Thanks to God, I, am inclined to believe the majority of people in this country are of good intent and can discuss this matter in a rational fashion and not get caught up in nutty emotionalism. By doing so, the right wing ideologues like Rush Limbaugh, are unable to exploit issues like this to further their on narrow agendas. Remider---keep the word hatred in perspective
By , at
Sat Mar 15, 05:24:00 PM:
keep playing the clip - keep putting it in the faces of the obamamaniacs - keep these exposing the clan of racists, fascistic, hate-mongering, black-supremacist, anti-Americans for what they are.
By , at
Sat Mar 15, 08:03:00 PM:
anonymous Sat. Mar 15 03:0500 pm
I, am sorry but you have it all wrong. On top of that, it appears as though you're full of anger. Just who are the people you are referring to? At least you can vent your anger over the internet.
By Gordon Smith, at
Mon Mar 17, 02:53:00 PM:
"keep these exposing the clan of racists, fascistic, hate-mongering, black-supremacist, anti-Americans for what they are."
Huh? I'm a fascistic, hate-mongering, black-supremacist? Who knew?
It's almost as if folks are blowing hyperbolic gaskets in an attempt to play gotcha.
By , at
Mon Mar 17, 08:29:00 PM:
People please! Are we so subceptible to the media? Don't any of us realize that these soundbits are menat to make us blog, question, go on and on until the next big thing can move us on to the next big thing. All of it is meant to get our attention, keep us watching and talking. I say the only opportunity we have is to judge any of the candidates through the media is to listen to them and observe patterns in their messages. Don't be so gullible. Don't let every sound bit that comes to your ears enter your decision process. Pay attention to the candidates, what they do and what they say. Don't let anything take your eye off the ball. I do not suggest that you should favor Obama or Clinton or McCann. I do say watch them carefully, their reactions, their statements, their behaviors.
Please do not use The New York Govenor as an aurguement against what I have just said....because based on everything I have just said his actions were extreme prior to his exposure, his behavior was extreme before his exposure...there was clearly something about this man that demostrated he was a bit peculiar. As a matter of fact he is a great case for my point.
By , at
Mon Mar 17, 11:01:00 PM:
Please everyone remember that if you do some research on Reverend Wright you will find that he served his country honorably in the Marines and the Navy for 6 years. He also holds 2 masters degrees. So while some of his comments are harsh and hateful, he is one the few Americans who have put their lives on the line for this country. When he was fighting for America, black people were treated very differently. So all the haters out there who have never served a day for this country should shut their mouths. If you have put on the uniform of the USA, than you have a right to any opinion that you want to have of America
By Unknown, at
Tue Mar 18, 01:57:00 PM:
Why is any of this important? Because you can not separate who you are from your pastor of 20 years if you have regularly attended church (not just a Christmas/Easter Christian). Here's a recent example: Bill Clinton swore before God to be faithful to his wife (when they married), and swore before God to uphold the constitution (when inaugurated). He cheated on his wife, and was found guilty of perjury in a federal investigation. You can't separate who you are from yourself to do a job. Never has worked, never will. This Reverand is important because for 20 years he was close to Obama, even to where he was the campaign's spiritual advisor. Obama can not ignore what he has been repeatedly taught for so many years. It has become a part of him, however large or small, and will touch his every life decision.
By , at
Tue Mar 18, 02:23:00 PM:
The dilemma we are faced with in this country,is that people do not think for them self,therefore creating lucrative opportunities (financially and politically) for the likes of opportunists in the media and fuzzy talk show host. What problems have Rush Linbaugh, Sean Hannity or Bill O Reilly solved? Their primary purpose is to exploit the none thinker's fears and assumptions and use them to their own advantage. It is no doubt,they benefit from all of the discord and divisiveness in this country. It is incumbent upon all good people to think in a rational, objective fashion and derive at conclusions as best you can, in absence of so many outside slanted opinions. We are in this together. Democrats, Republicans and Independents. We have more in common than differences. The High Tech Pimps would like to continue to lead you to believe to the contrary. God Bless America!!!!!
By marcytv, at
Thu Apr 03, 02:58:00 PM:
I am a nice, friendly, compassionate white woman. I don't hate black people...I don't hate anyone...I find it hard to hate, and I don't like being hated when people don't even know me!! When 9/11 happened, black people were killed. I cried for weeks after I learned about all the suffering many people went thru in their lives because of the attack. I worked with many black people who also cried. We were sad together. Rev. Wright, I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for anyone who hates. I am appalled by what America did to the black race in the past...I grew up in school and at home with both races, and others too! No hatred, just being together. We are all God's children. I believe church should preach love, forgiveness, compassion....we have enough hate and war in the world already.
