Thursday, September 10, 2009
A short note on the Wilson outburst
I am out west and was traveling and otherwise engaged during and for some hours after the president's speech last night, so I have only seen snippets. I have, however, seen the clip of Congressman Joe Wilson shouting "you lie" when the president claimed that his proposed reforms would not benefit illegal aliens.
Two questions.
Would this have happened if dueling were still an accepted means for gaining satisfaction in matters of honor? The louts in Congress would get civil in a hurry if we brought back dueling. And no letting the ladies out of it this time.
What is it with guys named Joe Wilson? Do they all accuse presidents of lying? Dan Riehl never would have said "I am Joe Wilson" six years ago.
As for the speech itself, tell me what I missed in the comments.
72 Comments:
By 
SR, at
Thu Sep 10, 09:39:00 AM:
TH:
What you missed is the key to failure of this program. Obama is proposing first dollar coverage for all Dr. visits. This is probably to bring primary care docs on board. Unfortunately it is as unsustainable as if it was proposed to buy everybody food every day instead of just when Katrina hits or the Mississippi floods.
By Happy Warrior, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:24:00 AM:
You missed *nothing*... it was as recycled as last year's CSI:Miami reruns.
By 
, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:28:00 AM:
You missed a brilliant, spell-binding orator, at the peak of his rhetorical powers, enthralling a nation with his rapturous words leading us to a new promised land. Actualy, anyone who watched the speech missed that, too.
By Anthony, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:29:00 AM:
You missed nothing new, other than PBO being more forceful and combative than I had expected. In fact,I have to wonder if he wasn't positioning himself for the plan's failure, but to "go down fighting," so he could campaign against straw men ...er... "obstructionist Republicans" in 2010 and 2012.
As for Rep. Wilson, the call-out was uncalled for, but PBO's calling his opponents liars from the rostrum was equally indecorous.
By PD Quig, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:31:00 AM:
You missed a speech full of magnanimity, equanimity and deference to his detractors. You missed a speech wherein President Obama laid a new foundation for bipartisanship in DC that will take the United States into a new era of pragmatism and personal and public fiscal responsibility.
You missed a speech where Obama lied, hectored, and spewed scarcely-concealed venom at his detractors. A speech where the thin veneer of decorum was ripped off the body politic like barnacles flay a keel-hauled sailor. A speech where Obama ushered in a new spirit of bile, vitriol and virtually assured escalating hatred between Americans of different political stripes.
By JimMtnViewCa, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:34:00 AM:
I wish Repubs would not be so apologetic.
By Georg Felis, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:39:00 AM:
Countdown until Joe is called a racist in 3…2…1…
Joe said the right thing, in a most disrespectful manner, and has apologized for the manner in which it was said, but not the content, which was correct. Every conservative who watched the speech wanted to say it, many of us actually did say it to the radio, or the TV. But according to the unwritten Republican Rules, we are not permitted to actually say it in His presence. (the unwritten Democratic rules are slightly different, allowing for staged outbursts, signs, chants, clown suits, giant puppets, props such as fake blood, and synchronized media coverage of “spontaneous” protests)
We should have respect for the office. It has, and will have, decent people occupying it for limited amounts of time.
By Herschel Smith, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:53:00 AM:
Since when is calling out the fact that a liar tells lies disrespectful? Mr. Wilson is representing his constituents, not the President.
I don't think he should have apologized at all. I'm glad that he spoke for me, although my representative lacked the courage to stand up and say the same thing.
Where are our brave men who will say that the emperor has no clothes? There is at least one, and he felt the need to apologize. What an effeminate world we live in. Not comparable to the men who brought us the war for independence.
By Viking Kaj, at
Thu Sep 10, 10:56:00 AM:
As I recall my 1st amendment, the truth is a complete defense to a charge of slander.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:00:00 AM:
C'mon, you wouldn't yell that in a public forum- it doesn't help the cause. Democrats do that sort of stuff.
Other than that, one thing the president did was come out strongly in favor of an "individual mandate", a federal requirement that each citizen must pay for health insurance. Presumably non-citizens are exempt, but who knows. (What provision of the constitution enables the government to compel citizens to buy health insurance, by the way?)
Anyway, trivialities like the Constitution aside, candidate Obama dissed the idea of a mandate.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:05:00 AM:
TH, I usually agree with you and seldom comment, but being a fellow South Carolinian I whole heartedly agree with Mr Wilson. "The Won" is a consumate liar and should be called to task over his lies.
Maybe you've forgotten how President Bush was derided by the Dems during one of his speeches. And it wasn't just one either. Remember Hillary's roll eyes act? I do.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:09:00 AM:
Wilson's only problem is that he wasn't willing to call a spade a, well..., diamond.
By Herschel Smith, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:09:00 AM:
Mr. Wilson was right in the facts, period.
http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/afb/archives/036021.html
A public forum is the ABSOLUTE BEST place to interact that way. Truth telling in front of people - not behind closed doors - is the order of the day.
By Viking Kaj, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:15:00 AM:
This raises a good point of parliamentary procedure lacking in our system.
Maybe it is time to introduce the prime minister's questions into the proceeding.
Many of Churchill's best one liners came from these sessions which were carefully rehearsed in advance and then hauled out at the appropriate moment.
As a start, may we suggest:
"I say sir, there liars, there are damned liars, and then there is you."
Often you can get away with reprehensible behavior if it is cloaked in wit.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:16:00 AM:
this is bullsh*t. lets speak plainly, folks:
....if a politician is caught in a public lie, we cannot enthusiastically call them out in public as a liar? Strange, because the founders of this country would call anyone who said that "a liar" to his face.
Really, when a Republican finally shows some balls in public, we Conservative panty-waists want to castrate him...then we all wonder why everyone on the Right is so gun-shy in Congress. ???
...oh and i really love it when Conservative bloggers gin all of us up to go blast politicians in town halls and rally at the tea parties and yet a Congressman jumps in mad as hell....and we say, "...oh how disrespectful of him, dont you think Reginald?"
WTF???
This is sad & wrong on those who have an issue with Mr. Wilson. Pres. Obama was lying when he said that. Therefor he is a liar. His speech was riddled with lies. All done in public.
....so now Wilson has apologized so we can all sleep comfortably knowing that never again will a repub or conservative in Congress show any public outburst of enthusiasm for the truth... "heavens to murgatroyd!"
...and why did Wilson apologize? Probably because Conservatives as much as Liberals had issue with him. Thats perverted.
...folks are saying because of his office we cant call Pres. Obama a liar.
Then why did the colonies declare independence from parliament AND the king, his frikin office no less?
Get a grip folks and dont eat your own.
Pres. Obama didnt lie in his capacity of private citizen...he lied in his capacity & role of POTUS.
Pres. Obama also has no "divine right" which "absolves" him from "public criticism."
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:17:00 AM:
You missed Obama lying, Wilson calling him out on it. Beyond that, same old stuff about how urgently we need this, how magic will be used to pay for it, etc.
He also whined about the deficit he inherited (from GWB, neglecting to mention his Dem Congress, or the heavy support for all the bailouts that Obama fought for, and validated behind the pulpit of the "office of the president elect"). Thank God this budget year is almost done. I can't wait for this clown to blame his split personality for the deficit he inherited from Obama, or the failed policies of his first year in office.
And you missed him not so cleverly avoiding supporting tort reform, while talking around tort reform.
By Unknown, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:23:00 AM:
3.2.1. Here it is!
We've gone through 43 presidents in this country. To the best of my knowledge, not one of them has EVER been heckled by any member of either party, (Correct me if I am wrong). This President experienced this disrespectful act simply because he is African American, and they ("the pubs") just CANNOT STAND IT!!! These people think it's okay to disrespect THIS president, because he is black. That's the long and short and regardless of whether they will admit it, there isn't one of them who wouldn't prefer a WHITE man in the office. Deny all you like. Call me names if you like. The truth is the truth, accept it or don't, stomp your feet, throw your hands in the air, and have a tantrum. Tantrums seem to be the status quo right now with the "pubs". It's the only way they can get their fear-mongering agenda out to the public.
To those who will bark back like rabid dogs to condemn my comments, I say to you..."Grow up and get over it". The world is watching, and they are LAUGHING AT YOU!!!
By Anthony, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:29:00 AM:
"To the best of my knowledge, not one of them has EVER been heckled by any member of either party, ..."
You must not have watched W's speeches, specifically the 2005 SOTU speech. And, for the record, I couldn't give a damn if Obama was Black, White, or Chartreuse, or if he was born in Hawaii or on Mars. I oppose his policies because they are harmful to the nation, and I dislike him because he is nothing more than the cynical product of the Chicago-Cook County corruptocracy.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:31:00 AM:
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:33:00 AM:
To Sister, Why dont you grow up. I see you dont think its ok for the Dems to boo a Pres. Bush in public do you? Or call him a liar, do you?
You are a liar just like your lover-boy Pres. Oba-messiah. People are sick & tired of this administration's lies and its liars.
Maybe once your Liberal racist side finally realizes that, you will get some truthful legislation & some whole-hearted support from the American electorate.
The world is watching your Liberal Pres. Obama and its laughing at him and you, his lap-dog supporter.
Take a breath, you may think better. Obama is a big embarrassment in the eyes of the world (except for maybe Cuba, Venezuela, Hamas & Iran...go figure) and last night's speech only made it worse from him & the rest of the USA.
cheers Sis. better luck next time....once you stop being so delusional, that is...wink wink
By Viking Kaj, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:39:00 AM:
I don't know about that world comment. My wife is from Sweden and she is generally pretty angry and sceptical when it comes to politicians whether here or there.
Just because you come from someplace else it doesn't necessarily mean that you check your brain at the door.
Of course, most American female voters now get a majority of their political information from Oprah and The View.
Could be wrong, but the last time a checked they aren't any more reliable as sources than Jon Stewart or Bill Maher.
Comedy and empathy now masquerade as serious debate, and one in three fail to finish high school.
No wonder this country is going down the large porcelain bowl in a swirling counterclockwise fashion.
We get what we deserve.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:42:00 AM:
PS oh and Sis and vici:
...besides the dictators Chavez & Castro, what other "world leaders" are really worried about what Obama's opponents have to say? really.
With Obama's allies like you both and Chavez & Castro "worrying" for Obama, and worrying about what Repubs have to say, do all of you really represent the "world watching"? ...does the USA need anymore enemies with friends like all of you?
just sayin...
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:43:00 AM:
Looks like ACORN and the SEIU are represented here, thanks to two useful....
I won't say it.
By Viking Kaj, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:46:00 AM:
BTW, the main issue here is that the O, and his evil dwarf Emanuel, were not able to control the message the same way they have been controlling press conferences.
They totally lost here. By making a big deal out of this the only thing anyone will remember about that speach is that Obama was called a liar on national tv and it was indisputibly true.
By Don Cox, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:47:00 AM:
It is essential to provide health treatment for illegal immigrants. The main reason why a taxpayer should support a national health service is to be surrounded by healthy people. For example, you do not want to be mixing with people who have TB. You do not want to employ people who have untreated health problems.
And most of us would prefer not to see others suffering all around us.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:48:00 AM:
Love the idea of bringing back dueling. Can I have dubs on Cheney? Or is Sen. Leahy at the front of the line?
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:52:00 AM:
Don Cox,
Nit only that, but we legals would actually save money by insuring illegals. As it is now, they get medical care by flooding the emergency rooms, and the hospitals end up covering the cost by raising prices on the rest of us. Illegals are getting medical care right now and right now we are paying for them. Getting them onto a pogram would save huge costs.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 11:56:00 AM:
Joe Wilson for Governor (to replace the luuuv guuuv)
By Dawnfire82, at
Thu Sep 10, 11:57:00 AM:
Sister: Your knowledge of politics is grossly limited (no other president has ever been heckled... HAH! John freaking Adams, President #2, was heckled, not to mention the myriad disrespects directed at the recent President Bush during even a SOTU Address!) yet you are able and willing to not only speak The Truth based on this ignorance, but to claim to speak for The World as well, and label any opposition as an unworthy racist tantrum.
Ignorance and arrogance in a loving marriage of idiotic intellectual oppression.
Keep cheering vicki...
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:03:00 PM:
Don, Anon 11:52
Just kick them out of the country, and save a ton.
And, you free up jobs that "Americans didn't want" for some of the nearly 17% unemployed under the U6 definition, so they can get back to work.
Or alternatively, let the bleeding hearts have a special break on charitable contributions and pay for them out of pocket. Me, I'll keep my money, cause I'm one of those racists who aren't interested in "living on less of MY money" as Mrs. POTUS suggested I needed to get used to.
By Viking Kaj, at
Thu Sep 10, 12:05:00 PM:
Actually heckling should be protected under the 1st amendment.
The only way to get anything covered by the press regarding the present administration is to heckle.
Look at the badgering in the town meeting forums.
As long as we have spin doctors who are always trying to control the message, and the press is an unidicted co-conspirator pleading access as complete defense, it increasingly seems this is the only way to present an alternate viewpoint that anyone will listen to.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:06:00 PM:
To Mr. Cox et al.
I for one, do not want to see more of my tax money spent on illegal immigrants when they are already covered in emergency rooms anyway. To say that socialized medicine, that will further bankrupt the present stable medical system & cut services, is a savings to this country, with out producing any proof to back it up, is very unfair & misleading.
Unless you grant amnesty to all of the illegals you wont prevent TB. Stop illegal immigrants and you stop new TB cases.
Pres. Obam is using healthcare to also open the door to granting amnesty to illegals. And yet the influx of illegals will be a tidal wave & masses of TB cases will go undetected & unprevented, even with socialized medical plans for illegals.
As it is, in Mexico you have socialized medicine and you can see how "healthy" it has made illegals who end up here.
nadda ladda luck.
cheers.
ps also your idea tragically implies that any illegal action that over time becomes impossible to prevent, should be legalized. That is societal suicide & I dont like it. Plain & simple.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:10:00 PM:
PSS
oh and the Oba-messiah, his admin, and his zealot followers continue to act horrified by Wilson's outburst, yet Obama himself used the same "offensive" tactic towards another president:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/02/obama-accused-clinton-telling-bald-faced-lies/
...i guess this emperor continues to have no cloths & no truthful ideas.
oh frikin well...
By MEANA55, at
Thu Sep 10, 12:12:00 PM:
Would this have happened if dueling were still an accepted means for gaining satisfaction in matters of honor?
If "honor" had any meaning anymore, would anyone even know the name of the individual who gave last night's speech?
P.S. It's good to see that adopting the pseudonym, "sister," has freed your mildly retarded former roommate to bare that one lonely thought that echoes around in his empty gourd.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:16:00 PM:
Sister:
We've gone through 43 presidents in this country. To the best of my knowledge, not one of them has EVER been heckled by any member of either party, (Correct me if I am wrong).
You are wrong. Bush was booed during his 2005 SOTU address. The best of your knowledge is well short of adequate, it would appear.
This President experienced this disrespectful act simply because he is African American, and they ("the pubs") just CANNOT STAND IT!!! These people think it's okay to disrespect THIS president, because he is black.
So did Dubya get booed because he is white? Or because he was not a Democrat? Just wondering.
To those who will bark back like rabid dogs to condemn my comments, I say to you..."Grow up and get over it". The world is watching, and they are LAUGHING AT YOU!!!
I am laughing at your self-righteous ignorant statements. You go off on a tangent based on a false premise: that Democratic congressmen have been the model of decorum in contrast with those dastardly Republicans.
Does showing that you are mistaken mean that those who do so are “rabid dogs?” Just wondering.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:34:00 PM:
Isn't the whole illegal alien question much simpler than all this? WHY ARE THEY NOT KICKED THE HELL OUT?
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:39:00 PM:
Sister and Vicki, the only people who give a flaming cow fart about Obama's race are his supporters.
If you view everything through a lens of race, you are a racist. If you still don't get it, that would be you.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:46:00 PM:
blah blah health care crisis blah blah blah
The world will come to an end, yet again, unless the government seizes control of the insurance and health care industries.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 12:52:00 PM:
Well, Joe didn't throw a shoe at him. Hey Joe, why didn't you throw a shoe at him?
By Don Cox, at
Thu Sep 10, 01:19:00 PM:
"To say that socialized medicine, that will further bankrupt the present stable medical system & cut services, is a savings to this country, with out producing any proof to back it up, is very unfair & misleading."
You can prove it only by trying it, but the health systems of countries such as France and Germany cost less and deliver a greater expectation of life.
As for kicking out all the illegal immigrants - the problem is finding them. Unless you are happy to carry an ID card with you at all times, and be regularly stopped by the police. And even then, fake ID cards are pretty common.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 01:28:00 PM:
What has me outraged is the way the repubs are now piling on one of their own. If they are not going to defend him they should just STFU and stand aside until this incident has run its course. What a pathetic bunch of weenies.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 01:35:00 PM:
"As for kicking out all the illegal immigrants - the problem is finding them."
Grab 'em when they bring their kids to school for the free education.
Grab 'em out of congressmen's kitchens and off their lawnmowers.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 02:25:00 PM:
Like I said before, the Republicans have no @#$%s. So this whole debate comes down to illegal immigrants. It is an unsolvable problem, finding them and sending them back is impossible. We may have a 17% actual unemployment but there are REAL americans who would not take the jobs that these people do, even if they were available to them. No acknowledging that is naivety at it's worst. Too bad no one is looking for solutions, just behaving like spoiled children (Which is what the congress and senate are) and start doing something. Just saying "kick the ba!@##$s out isn't a solution to the problem.
BTW, Bush deserved that shout out for the war, a misuse of money and lives that is exceeded only by the Vietnam war. His war, his problem. Did he deserve to be heckled, I am more inclined to want to punch him out. Still rankles with me.
Boludu, as usual your rabid dog inclinations have overshadowed any good sense you might have had once. Adjust your medication, please. Viciousness and nastiness and rancor do not become you.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 02:26:00 PM:
BTW I still don't understand why we don't have to show ID when we vote.
And I am a liberal!
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 02:37:00 PM:
I seem to be chatty today. I read the "I am Joe Wilson" article and I am only sorry there is no way to respond other than e-mail. I think that Wilson did that to get on camera and to get some notoriety.If anyone thinks he was expressing outrage, please, grow up.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 02:53:00 PM:
No, this debate does not come down solely to illegal immigrants. But seeing as that's what THIS article is about, that is what I am debating.
I don't know why we don't have to show ID when we vote, either. Probably because it's harder for ACORN to fake registrations that way.
And tell the 54,000 Americans killed and the 103,000 wounded in Korea (in less than four years) that Iraq is exceeded only by the Vietnam war. I know comparing Iraq to Vietnam is the hip, trendy thing to do at the wine bar, but they are nothing alike.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 02:54:00 PM:
Meana55 If "honor" had any meaning anymore, would anyone even know the name of the individual who gave last night's speech?
Huh? If "honor" had any meaning anymore, you'd respect the fact that Barack Obama was elected President of the United States.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 03:07:00 PM:
The hard left sites are trumpeting the fact that Wilson's opponent has had big money contributed to his campaign since lat night's event.
They want to make it appear that this is a grass roots response when it is really an orchestrated response by union members and ACORNers.
Remember this next year when every polling place has a large Voter Information Committee show up including union thugs, ACORNers and black panthers, all carrying axe handles.
There is no such thing as grass roots for these gangsters and liars!
By Dawnfire82, at
Thu Sep 10, 03:25:00 PM:
"We may have a 17% actual unemployment but there are REAL americans who would not take the jobs that these people do, even if they were available to them. No acknowledging that is naivety at it's worst."
Yet another example of market-force ignorance. The reason that menial labor jobs go to illegal immigrants for cheap is because there are a ton of unskilled illegal immigrants who compete with one another for the work, driving down the price of labor. I have skills. Most Americans have skills. After a certain point in their development they don't have to do unskilled labor for crap wages. (which I did do in high school, before I had any skills) If such a massive pool of unskilled laborers did not exist, the price of labor would be higher in order to attract workers.
John McCain was embarrassed by this very same issue in his home state a few years ago, when he made some sort of dumb ass blanket statement about how no American would pick vegetables (or some such thing) for $50 an hour because they considered such work 'beneath them.' Well, one of his audience immediately told him that he sure as hell would pick vegetables for $50 an hour! (as would I; that's $400 a day for a relatively simple job)
This is one of the reasons that people opposed Irish immigrants flooding into the country in the mid 19th century, and a reason that said Irish immigrants, who were on the whole pious people, were ANTI-abolition once they got here; if the slaves were freed en masse, there would be a gigantic pool of new labor willing to work for less who would take their jobs. (though I suppose in your world, it was just because they were all hateful racists)
It is basic, high school/college intro level supply and demand economics and basic American history that I describe here, which a super-highly educated person like yourself has no excuse for not knowing.
"Just saying "kick the ba!@##$s out isn't a solution to the problem."
It is, in fact. The UAE did exactly that about 8 months ago when their unemployment numbers (almost entirely among immigrants) skyrocketed thanks to the Dubai real estate collapse. Brought unemployment under control quickly, it did. Prevented civil unrest, too.
"I think... If anyone thinks he was expressing outrage, please, grow up."
'If you don't think like me, you're a stupid child.'
Such absurd arrogance. Do you always think like this?
"Huh? If "honor" had any meaning anymore, you'd respect the fact that Barack Obama was elected President of the United States."
Hey, let's all just redefine honor to mean whatever we want! I like your definition; it means that anyone who ever heckled, mocked, or made absurd comparisons about President Bush is without honor. I can buy that.
By Timesobserver, at
Thu Sep 10, 03:56:00 PM:
Well, Don Cox, if you want to find some illegal immigrants, all you have to do is start an illegal immigrant rights protests.
They showed up in huge numbers throughout the country a few years ago. Too bad our government and local government didn't do their job and arrest them then and there.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 04:02:00 PM:
No, we would not know his name if honor still existed in politics. He'd still be in his crooked little house, with his crooked little pastor, and his crooked little friends, in his crooked little district in Chicago.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 04:27:00 PM:
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 04:40:00 PM:
Hmmm. Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs was supporting Van Jones, is linking sites that report on the "disinformation" of the health care bill in support of Obama, is relentlessly siding against Glenn Beck and is even happy Keith Olbermann made threats against Beck.
And his website is still linked at this fine conservative website.
Will some admin here please just scan over littlegreenfootballs.com and decide whether or not you want to continue carrying dailykos lite on your blog roll?
Thanks...and continue the good fight against these scumbag lying progressives. I'm on your side... Charles Johnson is NOT.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 04:52:00 PM:
Thanks dawn for the education. Too bad real life isn't like that.
Also, I think that the Vietnam and Korean wars were wrong too. I protested the Vietnam war and ended up on an enemies list. I was 3 during the Korean war so excuse me for not waiving a protest sign. The Iraq war was a personal war on Bush's and Cheney's part, they wanted to right the wrongs done to the Bush image during the 1st Gulf war.
Honor, you all bandy it about like you all know what it is. None of us know real honor.
I will, anon, continue the fight for something, not against it. If I were I would fight against the nutty as a fruitcake neocons out to ruin my country.
BTW, as far as I'm concerned, none of those people are on my side, especially you all.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 04:53:00 PM:
Fight the good fight??? Do something positive ,constructive.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 04:56:00 PM:
Couldn't agree more about LGF. Plus Charles Johnson is a total bully--if you post something disagreeing with him he pulls your right to comment. He's not conservative--just wierd.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 05:33:00 PM:
I think the key is that conservatives who are part of this truculent, neo-fringe mob should distance themselves from this behavior, and do so vocally. I have in my community (KC, Mo.) and gotten flack as if I'm a traitorous liberal. However, I found that the majority of citizens in our circle quietly agree with us. They didn't vote for Obama but also like to debate certain parts of the Health Bill. Some they like, some they don't. Some were gung ho about his stimulus but sickened by his continued bail-out. Mostly they fear, as I do, that these individuals who consider Rep. Wilson a hero are going to force a sudden backlash against conservatives.
I have family in Virginia who support McDowell for Governor, but they are seeing his lead in the polls diminish because of this culture war-fringe edge he exhibited long ago (and long shed, to be fair to him). He's on record opposing things like birth control access by MARRIED people.
I would hope you, Tigerhawk, won't equivocate, either. I am no fan politically of the President, but this incident took the focus off the details of the speech and the Bill, and put it back on a few fringe loudmouths. Is it any wonder they could get away with calling protesters in KC "teabaggers"--a patently offensive term--when rather than engage in temperate and thoughtful debate, too many in my community came armed, or festooned with Confederate flags? My wife and I did precinct and poll work for John McCain all through the primaries and the general election, and yet we are called traitors because we publicly labelled Joe Wilson a LOUT?
It's not right, and it will be our downfall yet again unless we stop such exhibitions.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 05:53:00 PM:
"The Iraq war was a personal war on Bush's and Cheney's part..."
So all of the Democrats who voted to authorize military force were in league with the Republicans in this personal war? Or what?
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 05:55:00 PM:
TH you missed nothing. Rep. Wilson summed up the night for the nation rather succinctly when he called Obama a Liar. He is right and Obama can't believe someone called him out in public.
Oh, and politically speaking, Obama is about to fall on his sword to placate his base, because he was losing them, (and that is the one constituency that he cannot afford to lose) but healthcare is dead.
By dave in boca, at
Thu Sep 10, 06:24:00 PM:
How soon we forget the first Joe Wilson, with his scag-of-a-wife on the cover of Vanity Fair!
This Joe Wilson tells the truth "to power," another trope which quickly disappeared after the Dembots lied their way into power. Bush didn't lie, the first Joe Wilson sure did. He dined out on that BS & is now probably in some DimwitDem think tank cranking out agitprop for dummies [Demmies].
Protocol issues aside, [and the Dembot loonies in Congresscritterland yelled at GWB in 2005], Obama isn't getting any traction on the fabled [largely mythical] ability of a good speech to sway the public in the marketplace of ideas. First of all, most Americans may have watched the great tennis match in the US Open or Monster Quest &/or Ghosthunters, all as important and realistic as the silliness that now pervades inside the Beltway.
When San Fran Nan displays an inability to move facial muscles [due to multiple Botox injections, no doubt] and a grinning buffoon like Biden reminds viewers that Obambi might not be as bad as the next-in-line, why not allow yourself an alternative by watching a DVD, the Yankee/Ray game, and wait for Dennis Miller afterwards to give a better sum-up than Bri-boy Will-i-ams or Katie Couric or even Chuck-[I despise Sarah Palin]- Gibson? Or the absent-on-vacation The Daily Show.
Obama is turning into Jimmy Carter faster than even I expected.
By Dawnfire82, at
Thu Sep 10, 06:27:00 PM:
"Thanks dawn for the education. Too bad real life isn't like that.
That's the dumbest fucking thing I've seen all week. I'm quoting actual, real, recorded, it-happened HISTORY, but that isn't how real life is. Wow. Just amazing.
"Out to ruin my country... BTW, as far as I'm concerned, none of those people are on my side, especially you all."
So much for idealism and reconciliation, hmm?
I'm getting Chambers sock puppet vibes from you...
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 06:27:00 PM:
Sister:
To those who will bark back like rabid dogs to condemn my comments, I say to you..."Grow up and get over it.”
Boludo Tejano to Sister:
Does showing that you are mistaken mean that those who do so are “rabid dogs?” Just wondering.
Pasadena Vicki:
1)Boludu, as usual your rabid dog inclinations have overshadowed any good sense you might have had once.
Like I was saying…..
2)I think that the Vietnam and Korean wars were wrong too. I protested the Vietnam war and ended up on an enemies list.
You need to make up for lost time on the Korean War. To show that you still have the courage of your convictions, I would suggest that you go over to Koreatown, and start telling as many of the residents and entrepreneurs of Korean origin in the area that the US and the UN were wrong to have kept South Korea out of the hands of the Kim Dynasty. Report back to TH readers on the success of your spreading enlightenment. (I don't expect that you would go to Koreatown. My point is that they just might see things a little differently from you on this issue.And they have had more skin in the game than you or I.)
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 08:20:00 PM:
Boludu, Korean BBQ is the best, especially in Koreatown. I'm sure you didn't even know that LA had one. Bully.
Dawn, you have all gone over the edge, the right edge I might add. I will refrain from commentary till there is something that you all can actually have an conversation, instead of a rant, to talk about.
I'm out of here.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 09:01:00 PM:
Dawnfire, I posted the comment about U6, not sure who posted the other ones you addressed.
FWIW, I do have a clue about market forces, and perhaps more clue about what people are willing to do when they REALLY need work, and aren't too proud to do what it takes to put food on the table, rather than put the paw out.
My lawn guy loses work to Mexicans who undercut him, and local legal guys who're out of work and are bidding lawnmowing and other menial labor jobs because they just need cash. Likewise, Carpentry, Roofing, etc.
My dad swung a hammer. He was damned good at what he did, and made a good living. Before these jobs got taken over by illegals, they were done by skilled tradesmen.
My point was ... we have at stated 9.7% unemployment rate, and about 7% more when you add in the rest of the unemployed. Those folks need work, want to work, and will do the work that some illegal's been doing during the time they were employed in prouder work, more skilled work, etc. But when the going gets tough, people are willing to dig deep.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 09:16:00 PM:
And BTW DF ... just reread what you responded to, which was someone disagreeing with me, and adding to my comment.
But my point stands, and in fact I spoke to a guy who does grading and other landscaping for me. He described how deeply a vendor from 1.5 hours away undercut him on some commercial jobs. People are just willing to work for a lot less. Times are tough.
To be clear, we're not talking about bankers and doctors deciding they're now lawnmowers or handymen. I'm on the edge of the country ... most people outside of my town probably make 40K and under. At that level find 12-15 hour work, probably in cash isn't such a bad option. It's just dirty, sweaty and demeaning if you've gotten used to AC or less manual ways to make a living.
JT
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 10:00:00 PM:
Okay, this list is the height of liberal stupidity and ridiculousness. They're only making themselves look bad here. http://www.ranker.com/list/joe-wilson-_a-collection-of-joe-wilsonisms_/web-infoguy
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 10:22:00 PM:
Don Cox, so you have no proof in support of socialized medicine? well then, I dont need to listen to your point of view then on this topic. And your casual statement to just look at all the benefits in France & Germany, well what of them? prove something then. I dont know what you mean. France has always had a remarkable diet long before socialized medicine. Why is noone immigrating to those countries for medical treatment then if they are so great?
vici in pasadena, what the heck are you talking about??? so you agree that it was ok for Wilson to jump down Obama's throat then if he disagrees with him? if dems & libs can do it so can repubs and conservs.
Obama completely lied throughout his speech last night & deserved the calling out that Wilson gave him. Obama is the classic emperor without cloths character not to mention a classic wizard of Oz character. He and the liberals are all just smoke & mirrors. nothing of positive value is coming out of his administration except friendship with socialist & communist rulers throughout the world that are sworn enemies of the USA, like CHavez, Hamas, & Castro. how the hell does that help the USA & its people?
plain & simple.
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 10:42:00 PM:
The late score: Joe Wilson-27 Obama-0
By , at
Thu Sep 10, 10:47:00 PM:
MightySteve you are a mighty liar indeed.
http://conservativepoliticalreport.org/?p=2146
Poll: McDonnell widens lead in Va. race
Posted on 05 August 2009 by Mike
Washington Times | Sarah Abruzzese
"Republican candidate Robert F. McDonnell has opened a decisive lead over state Sen. R. Creigh Deeds in the Virginia gubernatorial race, according to the latest poll, released Tuesday."
"The poll from Public Policy Polling, a nonpartisan Raleigh, N.C.-based firm, shows Mr. McDonnell with 51 percent support compared with 37 percent for Mr. Deeds. The 14-point lead is up from six points a month ago".
"Mr. Deeds is also combating Democratic voter fatigue, according to the poll, which shows only 42 percent of the people who voted for President Obama intend to vote in the fall, while 60 percent of the people who voted for Arizona Sen. John McCain are planning to head to the polls."
McDowell is doing just fine. I see you are doing a bang up job like you did in getting McCain elected.
The only lout i see are people like you who dont have the guts to call a liar a lair, as well as practice your own form of disinformation to ruin it for conservative points of view. Your PC progressive republicanism, hand in hand with democrat liberalism, has sent this country into the toilet for generations. Why dont you move on and find another line of work to perform instead of politics. There are those of us who wish to fix the national catastrophe you have gotten us into.
The truth hurts and you sure dont practice it.
cheers & fly right.
By , at
Fri Sep 11, 08:48:00 AM:
Pasadena Vicki:
Boludu, Korean BBQ is the best, especially in Koreatown. I'm sure you didn't even know that LA had one. Bully.
Your second sentence, which I have put into boldface, illustrates one problem you have: you are sure of so many things that just aren't so.
By Georg Felis, at
Fri Sep 11, 10:52:00 AM:
New ending to a classic tale:
“And all the wise people of the town dragged the little boy out of town, shouting ‘The Emperor does to have clothes on! The most magnificent and beautiful outfit we have ever seen! How dare you speak up in the presence of His Magnificent Outfit!’. And they took the little boy away for a well-deserved beating.
The Emperor looked at the commotion and nodded, declaring it Good. And they all lived happily ever after. Until winter.”
By Viking Kaj, at
Fri Sep 11, 01:28:00 PM:
Hey Dawnfire, do you know that I used to pick vegetables and was paid for it?
I grew up and went to high school in west Michigan where asparagus was a big deal.
One of the local growers, Ed Dykstra, who was Christian Reformed used to use all the kids from the local Christian high school to do his picking.
I can recall a couple of times when they had to delay the school bus to Muskegon because there was so much to harvest. We kept hoping we'd be late for chapel, but that seldom worked out. On those days we would usually pick both before school and after, so from sunrise until it got dark.
We got minimum wage and were glad for it.
Afterwards I understand they had to go to Mexicans because of the baby bust. After we boomers went through there weren't enough high schoolers left to get the job done. Also, child labors laws made it more difficult to employ high schoolers for such long periods. Our legislators, in certain ways, have been favoring illegals over legal underage workers for a while.
I also pared apple trees, planted asparagus, picked peaches and apples, and shook cherries.
Working in the fields actually isn't so bad. It's a little repetitive, but as long as you like the crew you are working with there is camraderie. And you are outdoors which is better in my book than sitting in a cube in front of a screen.
I think more kids should have the experience, and it's a little sad that illegals have moved in and together with our legislators essentially made this impossible.
Today, given the chance,I would actually go back and do this for fun.
