Saturday, October 27, 2007
The truth sometimes hurts
Democratic Congressman Tom Lantos, no friend of the Bush administration, wadded up a pile of European sanctimony and rammed it down the throats of visiting Dutch politicians:
“Europe was not as outraged by Auschwitz as by Guantanamo Bay.”
Ouch, and indeed.
Europeans love to complain that Americans do not respect history, that we believe and act as though every day is a chance to start over. True enough, which is why it rankles so much when Europeans do not remember their history.
Don Surber predicts that Lantos will apologize. Fine, as long as he does not take it back.
17 Comments:
By 
Christopher Chambers, at
Sat Oct 27, 11:37:00 PM:
Ahem...and we were back then? Our own honored vets of the "greatest generation" were murdering and torturing civil rights Freedom Riders, and lynching folks before that, and that didn't seem to outrage a soul too, too many minds and communties. I'd love to put you all in time machines and see how you'd come out on that one. And I supposed we were so, so outraged when we were coddling former SS officers in order to fight the Soviets? Hmmm...how many paratrooper floated into concentration camps to liberate the soon-to-slaughtered masses of prisoners? Look, it wasn't until the Eichman trial that many Americans even took a close look at what happened. You didn't have a lot Holocaust survivors either in the States or Europe truly banging the gong and taking up loudspeakers on this, either.
Now, I see where Lantos is coming from, however. Yeah, they are sanctimonious. Murdering Jews in the name of politics, superstition and Jesus Christ has a long tradition across the Pond and in Russia, from before the Black Death to the gas chambers and the gulags. Indeed, the Arabs are still reminding folks that until the creation of Israel, none of them gave a crap either way about Jews. During the height of Islamic civilations (while Europeans were squating in mud to both shit and eat) Jews in these areas held some the highest privileges and positions. I'd say Europeans taught Arabs how to hate Jews, sure.
But sanctimoniousness and insouciance is something stored in great quantities on both sides of the Atlantic. Hell, everytime I turn on Fox News and behold the "fair and balanced" brand of "journalism" (chuckle), or catch the whiff coming up Rock Creek Park to Silver Spring from the direction of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, I get it shoveled my way in heaps...
By antithaca, at
Sun Oct 28, 12:01:00 AM:
I wonder how people would react if...W said this? Or Condi?
Lantos' remark seems to flying under the radar of major news outlets.
just sayin', you know, I don't think Rummy could have gotten away with this sort of thing unscathed.
By 
, at
Sun Oct 28, 12:06:00 AM:
I'd love to put you all in time machines and see how you'd come out on that one.
Please do. I think you'll find the most egregious offenders to be your own democrats.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 12:58:00 AM:
Joe Stalin was a bigger mass murderer then Adolph Hitler yet FDR called him UNCLE JOE and many hollywood liberals including ED ASNER are big time stalin boot lickers
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 01:02:00 AM:
More of the idiot blatherings of "Afro-Centric" Chambers.
The Greatest Generation having seen evil firsthand were the ones who helped desegregate America. Being far too young in the 1930's they were not lynching people and were critical to Dr. King's efforts as histories of the Civil Rights movement make clear. Truman's desegregation of the military and performance in Korea come to mind.
The evidence from Jewish and Muslim sources show Arabs in Spain to India persecuted Jews with regularity, indeed Christendom with it's Inquisitions and pogroms were preferable to Islamic lands. Jews were imported to Muslim lands because Muslim physicians were total failures. Nor could ANY non-Muslim be anything but a minor court official, often physically castrated. But of course Chambers exhibits the typical Leftie-Afro-Centric longing for the "Big Man" and his cringing, syncophantic court rather than free men. There is a reason that Jews remained in Europe rather than "flee to Islam."
What Lantos highlighted was the utter uselessness of the Dutch and Europe. The Dutch have 1,200 troops in Southern Afghanistan and fear an Intifada in their own country (the French one elected Sarko) which will give Dutch people an existential choice: submit to Islam as the new ruler or go with Extremist Parties and remain Dutch.
Meanwhile the Dutch troops are as useless and cowardly as they were in Bosnia (where they surrendered without a shot to Mladec at Srebenica and sat on their ass while Mladec killed thousands of Muslims and his troops raped more in the "sanctuary city." Under orders from Parliament the Dutch troops refrain from ANY combat operations against AQ and the Taliban. Europe could not fight it's way out of a paper bag and requires the US for ALL defense.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 01:21:00 AM:
Europe could not fight it's way out of a paper bag and requires the US for ALL defense.
Western Europe could not fight it's way out of a paper bag and requires the US for ALL defense.
The ex-Soviet states aren't nearly as moonbattish as western Europe.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 01:35:00 AM:
There are several responses to Dutch criticism of US policy towards Guantánamo. First, the legislators do not appear to have an appreciation of the complexity of dealing with an unprecedented situation with regard to extra-national combatants who are not uniformed. Perhaps we should ship the Guantánamo prisoners to Amsterdam. I am sure the Guantánamo prisoners would be a positive addition to the riots in Amsterdam. Did the Dutch legislators also criticize the “squalid and inhumane” conditions in French prisons?
If the Dutch were pulling their own weight with regards to the war against Islamofascism, Americans would be more willing to put up with criticism from them. The Dutch government’s withdrawing security protection from Ayan Hirsi Ali gives the impression that the Dutch shirking their responsibilities to stand up for freedom, that they are not standing up to Islamofascism. Nor do the recent riots in Holland give the impression that the Dutch know what to do. Given this incompetence and shirking of responsibility of the Dutch with regards to Islamofascism, it is downright ludicrous for some Dutch legislators to lecture the US with regards to Guantánamo.
There is a great tendency on the part of Europeans to lecture Americans on their shortcomings. Bruce Bawer’s While Europe Slept gave ample evidence of that. The award-winning German journalist Markus Guenther recently wrote an article very critical of the US which was full of lies and misrepresentations about the US. This is not “constructive criticism”; this is calumny. Americans who are aware of this criticism from Europe are getting a little thin-skinned about it. While the Dutch legislators were just a grain of sand in the beach of criticisms coming from Europe, they should not be surprised that some of the response to their criticisms is a response to this torrent of criticism from Europe.
IMHO, a Holocaust survivor has some moral authority, as Maureen Dowd would say, to lecture the Europeans.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 07:23:00 AM:
Chris ... granted there were opportunities to engage in Europe before the outbreak of WW2. However, during the war, we were just a little tied up in the Pacific. The fact that we got involved at all, and suffered significant casualties to liberate Europe, and did so before finishing up with Japan and saving what was left of our team (who were brutalized by the Japs) apparently doesn't figure into your analysis.
I would also offer that the reports of lynchings, or actual lynchings, is a point of great exaggeration.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 07:47:00 AM:
Just to provide some perspective: Van Bommel is from a socialist party about akin to the moveon wing of the DNC. At this point in time the Netherlands have more soldiers per capita fighting the war on terror than any country besides the US, UK and Oz. As this is a bit of a strain for us with just a small military, we are asking other European Nato partners to back us up a bit. There is no intention of quitting. Before you insult an entire country and a good ally because of our left wing fringe, please check out your facts.
No offence taken though.
Cheers,
Wijnand
By TigerHawk, at
Sun Oct 28, 08:29:00 AM:
All good points Wijnand, and well-taken. I, for one, have no objection to actual Dutch policy.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 09:44:00 AM:
See if this article changes your mind about overall Dutch military policy.
For a comparison, the Bangladesh order of battle contains several time more MBT's than the Dutch.
All the Dutch have stationed in Curacao are Fokker 60's maritime patrol aircraft. If Comrade Chavez takes an interest in Curacao because of its extensive refinery and dry dock facility, Curacao would be rolled over in a matter of minutes.
Of course all defense spending and staffing trends are DOWN in the Netherlands.
By , at
Sun Oct 28, 02:52:00 PM:
"If Comrade Chavez takes an interest in Curacao because of its extensive refinery and dry dock facility, Curacao would be rolled over in a matter of minutes."
Of course that is because the Yanks begged us to tempt red Hugo to overplay his hand.
After all, Curacoa is part of the Netherlands and thus part of NATO.
Bombing of Venezuela will commence in five minutes ;-)
By Gary Rosen, at
Sun Oct 28, 06:11:00 PM:
"I'd say Europeans taught Arabs how to hate Jews"
So who taught you how to hate Jews, you semiliterate halfwit? Your suckees Farrakhan and Jackson?
By , at
Mon Oct 29, 12:32:00 AM:
an unprecedented situation with regard to extra-national combatants who are not uniformed
Not unprecedented at all. This sort of thing has happened for ever. The only unprecedented part is where they weren't immediately killed. Probably an error.
By , at
Mon Oct 29, 02:17:00 PM:
I stand corrected for not having previously checked out the amount of Dutch troops in Afghanistan. I thank all who brought that point up. Here is my rephrasing of my contentious paragraph.
“While the Dutch have sent troops to Afghanistan, the Socialist Party of Harry van Bommel and the Green Party of Mariko Peters opposed this standing up to Islamofascism. Two politicians whose parties opposed sending troops to stand up to Islamofascism in Afghanistan, and whose parties’ response to Islamofascism’s domestic threat to the Netherlands has been ineffectual, make themselves ludicrous when they lecture the United States on Guantánamo. ‘Riots and car-becues in Amsterdam, and the Taliban’s blowing up schoolteachers and Buddhist monuments ? No problem. We will sing Kumbaya in accompaniment.’ ”
(I make this statement knowing that Peters has been in Afghanistan. BTW, she was born in Berkeley.)
The response of Lantos and myself should be directed not at the Dutch as a whole, but at the Greens and Socialists. Only 22 of 150 legislators voted with the Greens and Socialists in 2006 regarding the issue of sending additional troops to Afghanistan.
“The comments killed the debate,” said Harry van Bommel, a member of the Socialist Party. “It was insulting and counterproductive.” “
On the other hand, many Americans just might consider it insulting and counterproductive to have a Socialist Party member object to US policy when Jan Marijnissen, the head of the Socialist Party, says this:
“The US desire to establish world hegemony has always been rejected by my party as a short-sighted and dangerous policy.”
These are NOT the words of an ally. Lantos was thus put into a difficult situation, of responding to a representative of a party which did not consider the US an ally, even though his reply would be taken as a reply to the rest of the Dutch who DID consider the US an ally.
By , at
Mon Oct 29, 04:10:00 PM:
Hi Boludo,
I don't object one bit to Lantos' comment, I think there is a lot of truth to it, unfortunately. He made the comment to the socialists and greens in the Dutch delegation, so kudos to him.
Re. Jan Marijnissen and the SP (Socialist Party): they are not your ally. They also are not in government :-)))
Consider this: if Pelosi visits us in the NL, I won't hold her comments against ye Yanks, OK ;-)
Cheers,
Wijnand
By , at
Mon Oct 29, 09:38:00 PM:
Hello back, Wijnand.
Unfortunately, re Pelosi, there are a high percentage of Americans and Dutch who consider her a wise person, or whose objection to her is that she was not effective enough in implementing her policy objectives.
I wonder if those Democrats who have gone to Damascus to protest Bush's Iraq policy, such as Pelosi, Kerry, and Dodd, are aware that David Duke, the well-known white racist, also went to Damascus. Not quite the same as Paul's trip to Damascus, it would seem.
