Sunday, March 29, 2009
I need some College advice or knowledge
Cornell College:
This is not the one you immediately think of. Cornell College is a small liberal arts college in Mount Vernon, Iowa. It has about 1,200 students. The gaming club is the biggest organization on campus. The main defining feature is its One-Course-At-A-Time system, which does what you think it does. You take one course for three and a half weeks, with a few days of break in between "blocks", then you start the next block.
While Iowa is not exactly a dream locale, because it has small towns surrounded by corn, the people there are really nice, in general, and Iowa City is 20 minutes away from Mount Vernon. Iowa City is a pretty nice place. It has the typical college-town feeling, except it's surrounded by farms instead of woods.
While I like the idea of One-Course-At-A-Time, I don't know if I want to go to Iowa. I'm revisiting soon to remind myself why I like it, though when I visited it, I was struck by how much like my boarding school it was. The dorms are nice and roomy. Hofstra, by comparison, takes the idea of "economy of space" to a whole new level, with extremely cramped towers for dorms.
University of Iowa:
The main big state university in Iowa, this has about 22,000 people if I remember correctly. Some people I've talked to say it's a good graduate school, but it doesn't treat its undergraduates very nicely. Still, like most state universities, it has literally every club and major imaginable, so it's got the most options. The people seem friendly and smart. The question of how well I would do in big classes is up for debate, though. I don't really remember what the dorms look like.
Rutgers:
New Brunswick is not exactly the dream locale either, but at least it's close to home. The area around Rutgers is actually pretty nice, with some good restaurants, shops, and other various amusements. Rutgers obviously has a reputation as a party school, being the state university of New Jersey, but it also has a reputation of good academics. So it seems that Rutgers can be either depending on what you want. It has a rather disjointed campus, but there's transportation to each part of it. The dorms are ok, but kinda far from the rest of campus.
Hofstra:
It's a nice medium between a big state university and a small liberal arts college. It has about 8000 students, and it even offers OCAAT for first-years. The academics seem very good, and the music program is famous. It has a really nice campus, which doubles as an arboretum. It seems pretty easy to find one's way around. The engineering building is also called Weed Hall.
While I have heard from many that Long Island is far from the best place to live, it is close to New York and home, so I probably wouldn't hang around Long Island anyway. The dorms range from rather roomy suite-style living to ultra-cramped high-risers. As long as I don't have to stay in Alliance, I think I'll like it.
Drexel:
Obviously, the idea of being in a legitimate big city like Philly is cool. I'm not too far away from home, and everything in Philly is easy to walk, bike, or taxi to. Drexel's campus is nice, and not quite as disjointed as Rutgers's. Drexel also is famous both for engineering and it's co-op program, which both sound really good to me. About 13,000 students go there. It's pretty big, but it's not University of Maryland with its 32,000 students. It has very nice facilities, and the dorms are also pretty spacious.
Virginia Tech:
Blacksburg is a really nice town. It has a vibe that's very similar to Princeton's. VT is famous for its engineering program and its food, which is either the best or third best in the country. My cousin goes there, and he likes it a lot. Despite that it's pretty big, it's one contiguous, beautiful campus.
Conclusions:
It's a close battle between Drexel, Hofstra, and Virginia Tech. A revisit might put Cornell back in the running. I just visited Hofstra, and I like what I've seen so far. Drexel seems a little bit too specialized to me, but that might be good, if I really want to do engineering. Virginia Tech is obviously great for that as well, but I could probably be a bit more flexible there than at either Hofstra or Drexel. One of the benefits of OCAAT is that you can try lots of courses to see what you like, and while Cornell doesn't have an engineering program per se, it has a 3 + 2 program with several other universities.
Any advice you could give about any of these universities would be extremely helpful.
63 Comments:
By 
, at
Sun Mar 29, 09:24:00 PM:
hokies are a fun bunch, but you will not get the intimate exposure of a smaller school. It all depends on what interests you? Engineering or hard science--go to tech, otherwise Hofstra.
By 
StLCard, at
Sun Mar 29, 09:31:00 PM:
I attended a small, private liberal arts college in SW Missouri and, for me, it worked quite well. But you are not me and I rather doubt you need to "security" and non-threatening aspects that a smaller scale afford. Another thing you may not have considered - I spent 10 years in Omaha working for "Uncle Pete" and the winters seemed to be something like that portrayed in the movie "Fargo". Eastern Iowa can't be all that different. I've never seen VT, but the descriptions I've heard make it appear a very viable option.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 09:34:00 PM:
If you go to Mount Vernon in Iowa, you'll spend the rest of your life explaining, "No, not the Ivy League School."
By Christopher Chambers, at
Sun Mar 29, 09:36:00 PM:
Drexel is a wonderful alternative to Penn. Students and faculty a bit more down to earth. Enriching urban campus. Don't under=play urban campuses. Enrichment, immersion is better than being in the middle of nowhere...plus Drexel is pretty much gentrified and undergoing a lot of development.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 09:47:00 PM:
I am originally from the southern part of the US, and have lived in eight states - so my perspective is quite simple: Go to Rutgers..it is the only one of the five that has a national reputation. You will be able to work in any part of the US and have on your resume a place everyone has heard of and respects.
The other thing I would recommend that you do is take a Kolbe test. Companies use this test to determine what your talents are and primarily your areas of working that you are passionate about. I recommend the "A" test they have which can be taken over the internet and costs around $50.00.
Then, memorize every word of it and understand every word of the results.
a moderate
By SR, at
Sun Mar 29, 09:50:00 PM:
Are you looking to be the most serious student on a moderate campus, or one of the crowd.
Check out the SAT curves for each school and see where you fit (yeah I know there is variance).
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 09:53:00 PM:
I did my undergraduate (BS in Chemistry) at a small liberal arts college in central PA. Very intimate environment (small class size) but limited choices (both classes and Profs) and the program did a poor job of preparing me for graduate school. I received my PhD in Chemistry at Virginia Tech. It is an excellent Engineering and Sciences school. Lots of choices and lots of talent. Had numerous job offers upon graduation. Once in my new job we targeted Va Tech for recruiting and hired four great employees over the next several years. Go to Virginia Tech. It is a great campus and town.
By Sissy Willis, at
Sun Mar 29, 09:55:00 PM:
Darling boy. Such an abundance of riches. I don't know nothin''bout birthin' college careers, but something you said about Hofstra resonates:
"It has a really nice campus, which doubles as an arboretum."
As you cultivate the life of the mind, your physical surroundings will feed your soul. At least I think so.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 09:56:00 PM:
It really depends on what you want to study, THT. All else being equal, I would guess you might be less than happy in Iowa. I am from Nebraska and when Easterners come out here, they look around and see the empty and can't wait to get back East. So I would go with VT.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 09:57:00 PM:
Cont...re: Kolbe test
The reason I suggest this test is that it will help you understand yourself in ways that will help you in every decision you make for the rest of your life. It could help you find a major, and help you figure out where you go from there.
Also, take into consideration that all engineering majors are not equal in earnings potential. Many research types make good engineers and are great fact finders. But fact finders for instance also make good judges.
I say...take the test. It will tell you what people with similar talents and passions as you love doing for a living. And, when you truly love what you are doing and you are good at it...the rest is history!
I have no financial interest in the test.
By Escort81, at
Sun Mar 29, 10:00:00 PM:
I agree with Christopher. Drexel is a strong choice, and it has always had an excellent engineering program. As a full-blown University, it has progressed a great deal in the last 25 years (it is definitely a school on the rise), and the business and liberal arts programs are well-respected. You might ask about the chances of taking a particular course at Penn, if something similar is not offered at Drexel. Drexel co-ops have a good reputation around Philly and seem to have a decent placement rate, which I am sure will make the TH Dad happy. But, you have to want an urban campus -- some college age students just want the big wide open. As you may know, you can pretty much walk from campus to 30th Street Station, hop on a train that stops either in Trenton or preferably Princeton Junction, and you are home.
If you have a hankering for big time football, go to VT. It is a good school!
I don't think Hofstra is as strong a school as Drexel, but that's probably just my Philly bias.
If you go to Drexel, I will take you to South Philly to try out cheese steaks at Pat's, Geno's and Jim's. Figuring out which is the best might be the most important thing you learn during the first month of your Freshman year.
The key determining factor might be which school has the best ratio of women to men. I know someone who went to Vassar right after it opened its doors to males, and he, um, dated quite a bit.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 10:06:00 PM:
Some years ago, I worked for an engineer with a first rate mind that came from Virginia Tech. It has a very good national reputation in engineering and science, if that is your interest.
Check out what the faculty is doing with respect to research to see if any of them are doing anything that really interests you. Good faculty are always looking for smart assistants in research, even undergrads, believe me. They can never get enough competent help. Doing research with a good faculty member is great experience and great on a resume if you don't plan to go to graduate school.
-David
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 10:15:00 PM:
As a former TA and MBA grad of Iowa, I'd fully agree with the grad school vs. undergrad comment. Iowa City is heaven on earth if what you're looking to do is drink away the next four years-the bar culture is very pervasive.
Of your top 3, I'd say Virginia Tech due to the superior campus setting. That said, you really can't make a bad choice between those three.
By Kinuachdrach, at
Sun Mar 29, 10:19:00 PM:
THT -- You do know that almost all "higher" education in the US is steeped in brain-dead political correctness? Think about the implications -- and then do the smart thing.
You are going to live for decades, and will have no Social Security or pension to look forward to; work till you die. You are also going to be living in a much rougher world than your parents knew.
Best college you can go to at your age is the College of Life, which used to be known as the School of Hard Knocks. Three years in the Marines would be great, if you can take it. But there are many other alternatives, all of which would stand you in much better stead than an immediate dip into the indoctrination factory.
Plan to go to college when you are a few years older -- and much, much wiser. You will get much more out of college when you get there, and at the end you will be infinitely more employable than your current classmates.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 10:21:00 PM:
Johnnie: in your excellent descriptions you did not mention the work-study programs at Drexel and VT...Most kids I know who went thru such programs really thought they were great. So you may want to assign some points for that.
Selfishly, we hope you choose VT because we might see more of you, but also because all the kids I know who go there love the place.
Besides, you are a Virginian by heritage. Grandpa Tom
By D.E. Cloutier, at
Sun Mar 29, 10:22:00 PM:
Harvard Business School grads often credit their success in part to the job-market connections afforded by the school's extensive alumni network.
So, which school offers you the best network for your chosen field?
People do business with their friends.
By Aegon01, at
Sun Mar 29, 10:49:00 PM:
Thanks for your advice, everyone. I really appreciate all of the feedback. It seems like Drexel and Virginia Tech are neck-and-neck, then.
A revisit to Iowa would still be helpful, so that I could either confirm or rule out those two colleges. I think Rutgers is out. I'm just not very enthusiastic about it, for whatever reason. I'll still consider Hofstra, but I'm getting a lot of good feedback about Drexel and VT, though, so they're battling for first and second place. Hofstra's in third place, and Cornell is in fourth. I'd like Cornell a lot more if it was a bit closer to home.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 10:56:00 PM:
If you go to Virginia Tech, how long will you and your cousin be at the school together? Schools come and go, but family is forever. My middle son and his cousin are the same age. We got the two of them on a soccer team for a season when they were 11 or so. They are all grown up now that season on that kiddie team comes up in conversations a lot. That being said, I don't see how you can go wrong with any of those on the list.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 10:58:00 PM:
Do let us know how it works out! I would take that test though.
a moderate
By Purple Avenger, at
Sun Mar 29, 11:04:00 PM:
I got my undergrad degree at a small SUNY college in a very rural setting (1200 students total back in the late 70's) 20 miles from the Canadian border. The opportunity for local distractions was minimal, the profs were very accessible, and class sizes relatively small.
Grad work was done at UCSD which at the time was one of the smaller UC schools and sat in a fairly isolated setting (not true anymore) resulting in few distractions.
Recommendation, no matter where you go: do NOT get a car! Vehicles are a major distraction for an undergrad college student. If a study were ever done, I would bet money that having a vehicle correlates to lower GPA as an undergrad.
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 11:06:00 PM:
Co-op experience. That would recommend Drexel, but VT may also have it. Three good points about co-op. 1) apply what you learn, 2)test to see what you like/do not like doing, 3)On the time off from co-op you can do reading /library/internet browsing that you wouldn't have the time to do when at school. (To do well in school, you have to limit browsing and focus on the school work. )
By , at
Sun Mar 29, 11:10:00 PM:
If the students are congenial, if the place has physical beauty (there will be days when that is important), and most of all, there are teachers at the school that have a following, that the students love, then the place will probably work out well. My suggestion would be to think about the places in those terms, and then to follow your instinct. I hope you love it!
By Nobrainer, at
Sun Mar 29, 11:23:00 PM:
Unless one school has a specific program or opportunity that you really want to take advantage of, then I have to recommend choosing either based on cost or on weather.
By Unknown, at
Sun Mar 29, 11:39:00 PM:
I'm afraid that I don't have much original advice. I graduated from VT in the 90s and it was and is an excellent school. Absolutely top-notch engineering program, excellent campus and large enough that you will find two dozen people who share your hobby, be it rugby, 17th century French literature or drunken midnight sheep shearing. If you can hack the engineering program, you'll come out the other end as a first-rate engineer.
By Escort81, at
Sun Mar 29, 11:56:00 PM:
Semper -
"...drunken midnight sheep shearing."? I'm afraid to ask. Is that a cousin to cow-tipping, except with sharp objects in your hand?
By Kurt, at
Mon Mar 30, 12:48:00 AM:
I'd echo the positive comments about Virginia Tech. Nice campus and great town, with great engineering and science programs. The downside of Tech is that it is so big, and it can be easy to get lost in the crowd.
I know nothing about Drexel, so I can't help you there.
As far as Hofstra, I used to live on Long Island, where I worked at SUNY Stony Brook. I was never very impressed with what I knew of Hofstra. It had nice facilities and a nice campus, but Stony Brook was widely considered to be a better school academically, so I never took Hofstra very seriously. This could just be institutional bias speaking, though. (On the other hand, I wasn't very enthusiastic about Stony Brook, either, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.)
As far as Cornell College, I knew someone from grad. school who got a job teaching there. My impression of it has always been that it is like many other small, midwestern liberal arts colleges. That is, it's a place with a good sense of community and faculty members who truly care about teaching and about getting to know their students. On the other hand, after two or three years there, you may be eager to be someplace larger.
I'd say it depends largely where your academic interests lie. If you're really interested in science or engineering, then Tech would be a great choice; if you're more interested in the liberal arts, or if you think you'd thrive in a more personal environment, I'd take a closer look at Cornell College.
By Dan Kauffman, at
Mon Mar 30, 07:14:00 AM:
I can't comment on the advantages or disadvantages of your choices, but I do live in Cedar Rapids and after reading this blog over the years, I feel like your family are almost friends, if you DO go to Cornell I will send you my address and phone number and if you need ANYTHING don't hesitate to call.
PS I moved here 12 years ago and the area is surprisingly cosmopolitan unlike my Norman Rockwell impression, it has the Mother Mosque of the Western Hemisphere, a Hindu Temple around here somewhere and a Commune by the Maharesh Mahesh Yogi.
But you are correct for a young fellow Iowa City might be more fun. ;-)
By Dawnfire82, at
Mon Mar 30, 07:54:00 AM:
Environment will matter to you, and the reputation of the institution will matter to everyone else. Prioritize accordingly.
My only advice: Don't fuck off. I spent the first two years of college hungover, and my GPA has been haunted ever since.
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 08:17:00 AM:
My biggest advice is go visit the academic department of your top schools and talk to profs, etc.
My daughter is going into Geology and we did this at about half the schools we went to. It gives you much better insight into the teaching and support you will get than any other method. It's also a good way to gauge their interest in you.
By John H. Costello, at
Mon Mar 30, 08:35:00 AM:
Not MIT? The engineering is great and you an cross register for courses at Harvard. The student center library is open 24 hrs a day, and undergraduate research is encouraged. I'd skip their humanities courses except for modern langauges and take those at Harvard. It is in Cambridge, a bridge away from Boston, providing an endless supply of good eating places (and the cafteria food isn't bad either.) MIT also has the MIT Science Fiction Society Library in the student center (where you can folk dance three nights a week, and potter around in pottery making) with 40,000+ books and magazines dating from the 1920s onward.
The climate in Boston is worse than New Jersey's, but MIT has underground tunnels and the noted steam tunnels, as well as manyn connected buildings. It also has dorms.
I say this as someone who did not go to MIT (I was UMASS Boston) bu worked there for a number of years and have been an off-again/on-again member of MITSFS for almost 30 years.
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 09:06:00 AM:
John...Another option is to transfer to MIT later. My husband did that and got more bang for the buck.
a moderate
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 10:12:00 AM:
THT: I don't have much experience with Cornell, but understand the "block system" from Colorado College. While the ability to do a deep dive on one particular subject at a time is appealing (especially as a high school student juggling several classes, sports, clubs, family, etc.), I feel like it lacks in the preparing you for the real world department. As virtually anyone in the working world can tell you, your opportunities to focus on one task exclusively for a month are quite limited (perhaps outside of the sciences). Further, the one month of concentrated study doesn't provide the opportunity for long term planning that will be critical later in life. You will live your life by the single month of your class, and after it is over, the world is new and fresh again. In the working world, you will be forced to juggle multiple projects, with long time horizons, requiring you to not only juggle in the short term, but plan in the long term.
Particular in connection with discussion based classes, the block system is appealing, but when you graduate, there will be enough challenges to finding your way in the world, you don't need the added pressure of learning that each month wipes the slate clean.
Just my thoughts on the unique system. On the whole, you have some great options.
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 10:37:00 AM:
A lot of it depends on your personality.
I went to Grinnell college for two years and then transferred to Iowa State.
The small liberal arts, progressive college didn't suit me. It felt claustrophobic, I partied too much, didn't study, was kind of lost, actually. Even though the small concentrated classes were supposed to be ideal.
When I transfered to Iowa State, I found that I actually liked the big classes - it suited my personality better. I know it's not supposed to work like that, but it did. I improved my grades and was admitted into medical school.
The thing is, there is no one path to success. I realize that this is probably entirely banal and unhelpful, but you rest assured that you can pick the 'wrong' school and still make something out of it. So, make the best decision based on your personality and where you think you would excel, and if it doesn't work out as planned, well, that's not the end of the world.
*I've lived all over, east coast to west, and now I miss Iowa. Funny, that.
By Noumenon, at
Mon Mar 30, 11:05:00 AM:
If you really want to achieve something you're going to have to advance leaps and bounds faster than your regular classes will enable you to. You'll have to find a peer group that eats and breathes the same field as you, that competes and cooperates with each other, so you can get better together. So you want to make sure wherever you go has a critical mass of people in your field, who you can get along with, who are a little smarter and more ambitious than you.
Eh, you probably don't even know what field it'll be. Go to the closest school and then switch when you choose your major.
Dawnfire is right that the signalling aspect is the most important thing. What kind of people go to the school -- ambitious, nerdy, macho? What kind of people come out -- career-track, innovators, politicians? Going against type is like going to MIT to take English. People will think something's up with you.
Regarding the "each month wipes the slate clean" thing -- that's the opposite of the perspective I read here:
I think that the uni was the hardest period of my life, despite having a busy life as an ERP consultant/developer now, and the simple reason is that at work I have much shorter feedback periods and probably you too. Smaller tasks at shorter deadlines, like 1 or 2 weeks and if I forget about one someone will ask how it goes in 3 days and then I remember it again and can set about it quickly.
Our customers, coworkers or bosses keep much closer eye on our jobs. In the uni it is possible to do completely nothing for 5 months, not even to show up, and have no feedback, no punishment, no repercussions, no reminders, nothing, and then after 5 months all hell gets loose.
Of course it doesn’t mean I did nothing for 5 months but I did forget about some classes… basically the uni gives more freedom and thus requires MORE self-control from young guys than working gives/requires from adults, because at the uni you set your own pace, do whatever you feel like doing, and gain no feedback until 5 months, while at work you get feedback at least every 1-2 weeks so basically you are regulated tighter, the frequent feedback keeps you in the line.
This is why the uni was a period of fear and loathing and anxiety and this strong emotional impression is why the dreams still keep coming back…
And I think it’s unfair that we give more freedom and require more self-control from young guys than from working adults. Why can’t the uni be like either working or like high school: where you KNOW that if you had no negative feedback and no “oh, shit!” moments in the last 2-3 weeks probably you are doing OK?
Probably depends on what kind of work you're doing. I'd be interested to know what your dad thinks, whether school has a longer or shorter time horizon than his kind of work.
By Andrewdb, at
Mon Mar 30, 12:15:00 PM:
Good comments.
Mine -
1. After you take that Kolbe thing, get the Book "Getting What You Came For" and read it. It is about choosing and success in grad schools. If you want that, start planning now.
2. Size is great, but you have to be a self-starter. I went to UC Berkeley for undergrad - NO ONE cared much about the undergrads (great prep for life it turned out) but the size meant there was a critical mass of students passionate about whatever interested you.
3. Small is good (I am told) if you go someplace with great placements for grad schools and can develop those personal relationships with professors who will write good letters of rec.
4. Placement record matters - a lot. This is a subset of the "name brand" issue already mentioned and if you want grad school, is a subset of that.
5. Geography matters too - you will in all likelihood meet and marry someone in college - if you don't want to settle down and live in, say, North Dakota (or spend your life visiting the in-laws, aka your kids' grandparents), don't go to school there.
6. Cost - do what you are passionate about and the money will come. Not necessarily. I don't recommend doing what you hate just for the money, but be smart about it. See that book I mentioned above - it also talks about choosing a concentration - if you are passionate about botany, will forestry management be all that different, and perhaps easier to get hired?
You have lots of good choices. Good luck.
By Rohan, at
Mon Mar 30, 12:21:00 PM:
In my opinion, it really doesn't matter where you go for an undergrad degree, as long as you pick a half-way decent school. All courses will be roughly the same, and even use the same textbooks. What you get out of undergrad will depend far more on how much work/effort you put into it, rather than what the school puts into it.
As for real life, no one will care about where you went to University after your first job. It all becomes about your work career at that point.
So I would recommend finding an environment you like. Also, make sure you like the town/city the university is located in. First year, you'll probably spend the vast majority of time on campus, but afterwards you'll probably spend less.
Does the town have good public transportation, or good roads/parking if you have a car? Does it have good libraries if you like to read? Good bars if you like to go out? Good churches if you are religious? Stuff like this ends up being a lot more important than you realize going in.
By Gammer Gurton, at
Mon Mar 30, 01:20:00 PM:
If music is important to you, give Drexel a second look. You'd be right next to the Curtis School of Music, which is on Rittenhouse Square, and just a couple of blocks from the Academy of Music, where the Philly Symphony plays, and which has (or used to have) super-cheap tickets that students could afford. Philly is chock-full of music. It's one of the hidden charms of the place. Another is Philly's wealth of private academic organizations, some dating back to Ben Franklin's time. And cheese steaks are ok (take Escort81 up on his offer), but there's nothing like a real hoagie.
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 01:44:00 PM:
Yes. Andrewdb is exactly right. Just because you are passionate in doing something doesn't mean that it is something with a high renumeration. That Kolbe test gives you about a dozen examples of careers that people who test similarly to you are very happily engaged in. But, don't worry, its not an IQ or achievement test.
Compare them. Find out what each pays.
The test tells you what kind of working envirement will stress you and some of your strengths and things you need to compensate for.
All kinds of information.
a moderate
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 01:46:00 PM:
Oops...misspelled "environment".
Sorry
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 02:41:00 PM:
THT:
Your post was excellent, and you are fortunate to have so many offer well-meaning advice. I don't have much to add except:
1. Draw a chart of all that you are looking for in a college: city/country, big/small, activities offered, academics offered, quality of instruction, ability to get the type of academic attention you want (are there seminars, or big lectures?), etc. Weigh the factors, and look at what the results mean (and allow for the fact that the results might mean only that you don't have enough or the right factors or, if you did, that the weighting wasn't right). As you think this exercise through, you'll continue to home in on what you really want.
2. After reviewing all of the factors, go with what your gut tells you (if there's a major difference between your review of your factors and your gut feeling, talk things through with a teacher you respect, your parents, and then decide). This is one of the first major decisions you'll make, and you'll have a good feeling about one school that you keep coming back to. That should tell you something.
3. Don't eliminate Cornell so quickly, at least from the top 4. It offers a good contrast to Hofstra, Drexel and Virginia Tech, and it sounds like you think it might be for you. (And you can always go to graduate school in a city).
You have good choices, and I know good people who went to each school. Best of luck to you!
The Centrist
By Roy Lofquist, at
Mon Mar 30, 03:44:00 PM:
I don't have any advice for you, only an observation on the block approach.
I have been through both in academia and industry. In my experience the block approach is superior.
You have continuity through the "whole story". Much of the "lesson" at the beginning of a course becomes clear only near the end. In the block approach these lessons are remain fresh through the important conclusions.
Tip: Don't underline or highlight the text until the end of the course during review for exam time. I learned early on that you need a different color because you mistook what was important.
The other main advantage is that you are not distracted with other subjects and can devote your attention to the subject at hand. Cram for exam is much easier when you;re only cramming for one exam.
By paul a'barge, at
Mon Mar 30, 03:52:00 PM:
Not on your list but should be: University of Nevada Reno.
It's a small school (10,000 students including grad students and the medical school) with a faculty loaded with folks who just missed the tenure cut at Stanford and Berkeley but who want to stay in striking range of San Francisco and the Bay Area. You can leave your last class of the day and be in waders fly fishing the Truckee River in 45 minutes. You can drive to Yosemite for an afternoon. You are 4 hours from San Francisco and 45 minutes from Lake Tahoe.
And you can minor in Poker (Texas Hold 'em of course) on the weekends.
Academically it's a great school with a good Geoscientific school of mines, a great Math and Computer Sci departments.
And, Reno has a great airport, easy to get into and out of.
By Roy Lofquist, at
Mon Mar 30, 04:07:00 PM:
I visited UNV Reno a number of times in the late 60's. My company, Xerox, had a main-frame installed there. Kept getting fried by lightning. I can only add that the Reno area is breathtakingly beautiful.
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 04:08:00 PM:
I'm not sure you need any more advice, THT, but we send congratulations on having such a great list to choose from. Like Tom, we'd enjoy having you in our general vicinity at VT, but you need to decide on what you think is most suitable to you in a school. Whatever you do, you'll find benefits. You've gotten some good counsel from the commenters.
THM (Grammy)
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 05:11:00 PM:
Actually, the University of Nevada, Reno is up over 16,000 students now. The College of Engineering is well-regarded, as is the School of Mines, and there are also good programs in biotechnology and business. Paul and Roy are right about the beauty of the Reno area. The main problem with Reno is that there are no direct flights to New York or Washington, and flying east to one of those cities takes a while with all of the layovers.
By , at
Mon Mar 30, 07:47:00 PM:
T-Hawk-teen: With gaping maw , I find myself agreeing with Chris.Chambers ( 'cause he drank the Obambi koolaid with such obvious relish when he should have first ingested an emetic as a proactive curative ) Drexel , for sure- I am Penn,class of '72 - you risk the "boarding school stenosis" with some of the other smaller and rusticated schools- Hofstra thinks they're in NYC , and they are NOT , and Queens College is grand and olde and now- ooops, Rutgers= the state cannot run either a business nor any institution of learning as they conflate politics with learning curves...unions in your classrooms?mediocre(at best)and impersonal,at best.ChrisC is actually right/wrong re: Drexel ( now a university, formerly D.I.T-strictly)-they have gentrified( his word)BUT! they are the beneficiary of Penn's financial power,proximity-right smack there-&more importantly, Penn's commitment to ameliorating the "seams" betwixt ghettoized neighborhood(West Philly,baby)& the gowns...plus, I believe there are shared teaching regimes too.One can earn an MBA@ Drexel!!Forget the provincial prejudices of Tigertown, Philly led the eastcoast food renaissance which migrated to NYC, postfacto...GREAT Basketball and Rowing and IVY football!Plus, you're close to home...Philly has an interesting Chi-town-style political scene too- rather intriguing to observe-Tammnyhall , sorta. You can always get your pinkiefinger broken up in Princeton, whilst drinking tea lakeside of Carnegie , if you're homesick...I could say more, but Chris will probably fill in the blanks...heh....best o'luck , meboyo!
By Unknown, at
Mon Mar 30, 08:00:00 PM:
What you bring to the table will be more significant than which school you attend. However, I vote for either VT or Drexel. Both schools have solid reps in engineering and related areas. Grads I know from these schools are doing well in their chosen fields. Good Luck!
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 12:21:00 AM:
Not Rutgers! Whatever you do, you must leave New Jersey. Jersey has just too much of too many wonderful things. Great food in an unbeleivably wide range of ethnic and economic levels! The Shore, the mountains, bucolic rural settings bracketed by two of the countries most vibrant cities.
BUT, your horizons can remain too small. It's too big and beautiful a world. Ever consider U of Colorado Boulder? Change your life...gauranteed! -Former Jersy Boy-
By Dan Collins, at
Tue Mar 31, 03:45:00 PM:
I wsnt to Iowa for graduate school. Compared with many other midwestern universities, it's relatively compact. Iowa City is pretty fun, though it's the local liberal mecca.
I'm a fan of colleges, so I'd recommend that you check out Cornell College again. Yeah, there's not much going on, but that means that there's less distraction, and the advantage of going to a college is that you're the faculty's business, rather than someone who's relegated to the graduate instructors for your basic courses. My youngest brother went there, and I think he received a fine education. Iowa City's within easy striking distance if you want to hang out.
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 04:18:00 PM:
My son and I visited several engineering schools before he finally decided on VT. It is all in the timing. We went to Georgia Tech (too urban), NC State (kind of run down), and then VT. Once we drove on campus I knew where I would be sending my money for the next 4 years. The campus is beautiful, and we noticed that everyone seemed to be wearing something VT - shirt, hat, etc, and everyone we talked to seemed genuinely happy to be there, and were actively trying to convince us that VT was the choice to make. My family is familiar with many colleges, including pricey (Bucknell), state related (my alma mater, Pitt and my wife's, East Stroudsburg) and everthing in between. I remember his orientation started with some university official telling us two things - the turkey is a proud and noble bird, and you will soon realize orange and maroon really go together.
I am an NC resident, so there were out of state tuition considerations, but it turned out to be the best choice. He had jo offers before he graduated in 2003, and has a great future ahead.
Go to VT - you will not regret it.
Oh, did I mention the feeling you get when they play Enter Sandman at a night football game? Talk about the hairs standing up on the back of your neck!
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 04:20:00 PM:
One comment on the one class at a time system: We did not have it, but summer classes (mainly for jocks who had a reduced load during their season or those who had failed a course) were done this way in a three week period. The general consensus was that it was a great way to learn UNLESS you had trouble grasping a point. The class moves so fast, that by the time you can seek out help and clarify something you didn't understand, you can be hopelessly behind! Just a warning.
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 05:15:00 PM:
T.H.T.
I haven't much to offer that hasn't already been said. Like DF82(?) I spent, well, most of my undergraduate experience drunk and/or otherwise under the influence. I let myself down, and dishonored my mother and father (who was already dead) by treating the gift and opportunity they worked so hard to give me with such a lack appreciation. Years later I went to Grad School on my dime, and worked hard to graduate with honors with an MBA from a top program.
I did myself a great disservice in a number of other ways. First, I put myself behind the 8-ball on the GPA, and second, I put myself behind in my course selections. And I majored in a course of study that left little or no room for electives that would open my mind to the myriad possibilities of higher education. Hell, I just wanted a job and sheepskin in something I tought was marketable.
Whereever you choose to go, realize that there are great opportunities to experience other people and courses of study. I suspect you have much exposure to that already, with your prep school environment as well as your family history in academia I gather from this blog. In that, you have a great advantage and grounding. If you can look in the mirror each day and know that you've done your level best to live up to your expectations of yourself, you will be a lucky man.
As for partying and having fun. It's also a big part of the journey. I just let mine get a wee bit out of balance. I counsel thusly on a bit of discipline learned the hard way ... read your assignments before the lecture and before you party, and show up for classes even if you sleep through them.
Finally, if you choose a school or program that doesn't work for you, stay open to the possibilities of transferring to a more favorable setting or course of study.
JT
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 05:23:00 PM:
We looked at living in Reno a few years back, but we found we couldn't escape the smell of stale cigarette smoke, which was everywhere. Unless they have changed their laws and practices since, you should consider that.
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 05:41:00 PM:
A comment on one course at a time. While it may be good for history or english type courses, it is BAD for math, science, and engineering courses. Reason: a lot of those concepts need TIME to sink into one's brain. It is even more problematic when one realizes that in such courses, one concept builds on previous concepts: one needs to understand what was studied in week two in order to understand what is studied in week four. This does not necessarily apply to history or english type courses.
Take it from someone who took organic chemistry in a four week summer session. The only way I aced it was by going over the material for five weeks BEFORE the course began.
A point regarding time being needed to understand concepts. One semester I put Thermodynamics on pass-fail, as I was only getting a C in it ( C= class average in engineering). A week before Thanksgiving I asked the professor for some extra problems to better understand the concepts. I went over the extra problems over Thanksgiving vacation, and after vacation did a quick review with the prof over the concepts behind the extra problems.
I did not study Thermo after that for the two weeks before the final. I had the course passed. I was late to the final, my calculator conked out, and I aced the exam. Extra work plus digestion time.
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 05:54:00 PM:
THT:
Seems like the consensus is VT or Drexel. You'll have the opportunity to get a great education either place. Don't dismiss Cornell until you revisit. It sounds like a strikingly different environment, and one you should be sure before you rule it out.
The "place" will matter a lot, and there couldn't be a sharper contrast. Beautiful bucolic hills of VA or the buzz of Center City. I don't know much about Iowa, but it seems like a quiet and very small place.
It depends on what environment you will both enjoy and thrive in. I have a son who spent a year in the sticks and transferred to an urban environment. He did so for the programs, but the city was clearly for him. Second son is a freshman at a small school in rural Ohio. Loves it so far.
Morals:
1. Different strokes...
2. You can transfer if it doesn't feel right, PROVIDED that you do well while you are at the first place.
3. Either Drexel or VT will feel sufficiently different from either NJ or boarding school that you will feel like you've made a change.
4. You have a number of good choices. This was a tough year for admissions, so be glad you have so many good ones.
TIGOBLUE
By Unknown, at
Tue Mar 31, 06:31:00 PM:
A liberal arts college helps you to have a diversified perspective. Who knows? You could end up being a history major like some of your ancestors. Don't choose your college or university based on what you think your major will be. You have lots of time to narrow your perspective in graduate school as long as you take challenging courses related to your probable career choice.
By Who Struck John, at
Tue Mar 31, 08:45:00 PM:
If you're serious about engineering or hard sciences, go to VT. Drexel we don't know of out west, but we recognize VT's reputation.
By , at
Tue Mar 31, 10:42:00 PM:
A few notes from my experience:
1) A lot of people who go far find that it feels a lot further away they they anticipated when they get there. I went about 2 hours away from home and found it to be just perfect- close enough for an easy day trip but far enough that the parents couldn't just "pop in."
2. It's really hard to make friends in college; in most classes people just don't interact that much- that's why so many people join fraternities and sororities. (Assuming you don't want that) I would look for a college with a smaller group that you can take part in, like a close knit honors society or department that interests you.
3. However nice the campus looks now, once you live there a semester, it will start to look like, well, like a bunch of college kids live there. Don't worry too much about that.
Good luck! You'll have a blast!
By Cardinalpark, at
Wed Apr 01, 08:15:00 AM:
first off, I'm completely jealous. What a great time in life! Enjoy.
My advice would be to narrow your selection to 2 or 3 at most, then go spend a friday to sun at each. I remember many schools allowed those types of visits. You'd stay in a dorm, go to friday classes, and hang out on the weekend, checking out the social scene.
That might give you a sense of your fit. In the end, it's really about your personal fit with the place and the people. It's worth the investment of time if you can do it.
By , at
Wed Apr 01, 12:01:00 PM:
First, forget totally Rutgers and Hofstra. You need to get out of New Jersey, and the only way you should spend time on Long Island is when you are able to afford flying your own helicopter to your summer place in the Hamptons. That's still a few years off.
I've had family and friends at VT, they loved it. Have known colleagues who had impressive experiences at Drexel, and more recently some younger friends.
Your biggest decision is urban versus rural, if one is strongly preferable that should make your decision clear. Each has a lot to recommend in their favor, but it's a personal choice. Drexel and Tech are great options.
Cornell College is the ringer, if you are quirky enough to make that school method work, it might be OK, but again only you can answer that. It's much more distant from current family, so there would be travel considerations.
Dan
By , at
Wed Apr 01, 09:25:00 PM:
I second Cardinalpark in being jealous. That might be 'cause when I applied to college, every place rejected me except one school. My closest friend from that time also got admitted to only one college (after applying to a dozen). It was a little place in Cambridge called Harvard, and ten years later he died in rehab. Life is funny that way.
Second (or is that third?), I have absolutely no idea which school is better. They all sound good to me.
I wish you all the best of luck.
By Unknown, at
Fri Apr 03, 12:01:00 AM:
Kurt,
The drunken midnight sheep shearing... I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it and you can't prove anything. That guy in the pictures? He just looked like me. It most definitely was NOT the story my best man decided to tell during his toast at my wedding. Nope. Not at all.
VT is a large place and while I can appreciate the feeling that you're just a number with an alphanumeric prefix, there is so much to do there in groups ranging from the half-dozen to the couple hundred that you can easily find your social niche. I will say, however, that being an extrovert helps a great deal. But that applies just about anywhere.
Looking over my college crowd and what they're doing with their lives... One is a ride engineer for Disney, one is an architect who helped remodel the Pentagon, one is an exotic animal veterinarian, one is doing super-secret things he can't talk about for a three-letter-agency, one is an F-14 pilot, another is an Apache pilot, a few own their own startups... We do okay.
(one of those listed above is me - pick the one that sounds the coolest)
One last tip: The engineering program at VT is not for the faint of heart, keen of mind or lacking of discipline. It is a brutal program that turns out top-flight engineers. I know next to nothing about Drexel. I know you'll have a great experience at VT.
By Noumenon, at
Mon Apr 06, 11:31:00 PM:
I found a different theory of what college is good for that contradicts what I posted before. You only need "signalling" if you already know what you're trying to signal. Otherwise you need to make yourself into something worth signalling about.
