Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Selling victory short
John Murtha cannot abide the possibility that the United States might fight its way to peace in Iraq:
"We can't win militarily," declared John Murtha, chairman of the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, on Tuesday, dismissing as irrelevant the extraordinary gains by U.S. forces in Iraq since President Bush placed Gen. David Petraeus in charge.
The political leadership of the Democratic Party, with rare exceptions, is simply terrified that Iraq might look something like victory before, say, next Labor Day. Not only will steadfast hawks run endless advertisements with their incessant predictions of defeat, but it would force them into a truly horrible rhetorical cul de sac. Their only option would be to argue that the victory, however important for Iraq, the war on Islamist extremism, or America's geopolitical advantage, was "not worth the cost" in lives and money. This is not far from telling America's military that its heavy price was all for nothing. Any voter who is not an utter barking moonbat will find that pretty tough to square with the left's claim that they "support the troops" (which claim, we all know, is rank political expediency, today's younger lefties having learned from watching their ideological forebears that it does not pay to spit on returning soldiers).
If the insurgency peters away this winter and Iraqis, tired of fighting, were to bury hatchet and build a reasonably decent society from the wreckage of two generations of virtually constant war, what would Murtha, Pelosi, Kennedy, Reid, Kucinich, and countless other anti-war liberals say then? Having sold victory short for years, they will pay a heavy price covering their losing position.
BUT THEN... Don't get too excited. There is still time for Iraq to re-destabilize. John Murtha may yet be right.
10 Comments:
By 
Purple Avenger, at
Wed Nov 21, 09:34:00 PM:
Even money the democrat majority in both houses disappears in '08.
By Elijah, at
Wed Nov 21, 09:52:00 PM:
As important - and this was the Massoud model during the Soviet army's retreat - the Iraqi mujahideen have heard US politicians promise withdrawal, and they know US voters favor withdrawal.
By Purple Avenger, at
Wed Nov 21, 10:41:00 PM:
and are making fewer but more targeted attacks, moving to other areas of Iraq or simply lying low to fight another day [1].
Being killed and captured in droves is more like it.
The Muj/Soviets in Afghanistan were a completely different situation. They were going up against a largely conscript army with poor morale and equipment unsuited to working in high mountains and the Soviets never inkblotted the way we are.
When the Muj were specifically addressed by Spetznaz, they got hammered. This is more like the situation in Iraq now. Our guys have become very very good.
By davod, at
Thu Nov 22, 05:04:00 AM:
You must remember in war, as in most things, the propoganda war is a large part of the battle. The Administration has no friends in the Media in this country.
The Demonrats in the Democrat party and their friends just need a downturn with US deaths to create a crisis of confidence.
Any efforts to explain any upsurge will be met with derision by the media and Demonrats. The RINOS in the house and Senate (By that I mean the sleazebags who care more about retaining their seats than fighting back against the BS) will fold.
We will hide, either in cantontenments in Iraq far enough away not to hear or see the bloodshed, or over the horizon in another hemisphere.
The Iraqis will be left to the tender mercies of the competing Islamic courts of Shiite's allied to Iran and Suunis allied with Al Qaeda.
God bless America.
By 
, at
Thu Nov 22, 09:41:00 AM:
Although I agree with the gist of the post, this is just another example of how people would rather be partisan than solve problems.
1. Murtha has been saying that you can't win militarily since 2005. What else is new? What he means is that there needs to be a political solution to the crisis. The IBD editorial you linked to was one of the more useless pieces of biased journalism I have read (on the right side of the political spectrum). It takes one single line that Murtha said (out of context) and then goes on and on about how great things are going in Iraq. But then again, the bar has been set so low that "only so and so many people were killed this week" and "I haven't heard a car bomb for a whole day" are reasons to rejoice.
2. To get a sense of context, I went looking for a transcript of what Murtha actually said, but could not find this particular quote recently. However, what I did find was the following in a recent press conference with Obey:
REP. MURTHA: [snipped] There's all kinds of problems going on in Iraq, but there's a lull. Now's the opportunity for the Iraqis -- the Iraqis have to settle this themselves. That's the problem.
REP. OBEY: Let me just make a point. Everybody in the White House keeps talking about what is happening with respect to military actions.
But the fact is that General Odierno pointed out that the principal problem in Iraq at this point is not military, it is that the government itself is not taking advantage of that so-called law and order to make the kind of political adjustments necessary to take advantage of the surge, and that's the problem. And the problem is not only are we not seeing the politics of the situation improve on the ground, but we're seeing the politics of the situation throughout the region slowly but surely erode, and it's ruining our abilities to deal with any other issue in the region.
[end blurb]
So don't you think this sounds reasonable?
3. The big problem I see here (and I have only been paying attention to politics for about a year now) is that people like to "project" viewpoints onto others that don't actually exist. So if there is a disagreement, you take the positive points of your argument, invert it, and assume that's what the other side wants. For example, if the Republicans want to "win" this war, then the Democrats must want us to lose this war. This is really stupid. I'm not a Democrat, but I'm pretty sure they (at least most of them) don't want us to "lose", they just think it is a tragedy and want to get the hell out. Saying that the Dems want us to "lose" is just as stupid as Dems saying that Republicans want to "put troops in harm's way".
Anyway, it's a dam shame that some people would rather take pot shots that miss the point, than discuss how to solve actual problems, e.g. "How are we going to get the Iraqi gov up and running?"
PS Murtha and Obey's press conf was equally guilty of projecting. Because this House bill is going to get shot down due to having a withdrawl deadline attached, they're blaming GWB for "not wanting to protect/fund the troops" ...etc
By , at
Thu Nov 22, 09:45:00 AM:
oh, by the way, the second article you linked to was pretty reasonable
By AmPowerBlog, at
Thu Nov 22, 12:24:00 PM:
When I jab cut-and-run defeatists, I always say: "Don't knock over Murtha on your way out!"
Have a great holiday!
By , at
Fri Nov 23, 10:17:00 AM:
TH: "Not only will steadfast hawks run endless advertisements..."
You meant "doves"?
Snide exit comment:
"My brother and co-blogger, Charlottesvillain, who is something of a foodie..."
What a delightful way of calling your brother fat. :)
By , at
Wed Nov 28, 03:16:00 PM:
"Saying that the Dems want us to "lose" is just as stupid as Dems saying that Republicans want to "put troops in harm's way"."
But that's entirely true. Soldiers EXIST to go into harm's way in place of other citizens. They are a form of currency, expended to achieve national objectives. Like fighting and defeat foreign armies, or policing disaster areas, or squelching insurrections. Really, that's it.
You might reword it as 'Republicans want troops to do their jobs' and 'Democrats don't think that they should have to.' But foreign policy should be dictated by what is good for the nation, not by whether someone might get hurt. Sometimes, hurting people IS a policy.
Democrats don't really want to lose; (well... some of them do) they just don't want to play. If the other team shows up and you don't, or you quit half-way through (because it's harder than you thought), you still lose. AND you're a pansy.
Here's a fatherly story to illustrate what I mean.
We were down 21 to 13 as the 3rd quarter ended at the Baghdad Bowl. The Democratic coaching staff (who wasn't even actually running this game) said, "Fuck this, we can't win. Let's just go home." Fans, disheartened by a series of turn-overs, agreed. The Republican coaches (who were running the game) said, "We're just a touchdown and a field goal from victory. Try this play series..." And the team went back on the field. Now, we've scored the touchdown and are looking toward the field goal.
Republican staff: Aggressive, reckless, optimistic? Probably.
Democratic staff: Weak, feckless quitters? Definitely.
By , at
Tue Apr 22, 07:16:00 AM:
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